# Israel ready to attack Iran? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685 "2012-02-03T21:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/61 "2012-02-04T07:39:49Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > The [**Ahmadinejad quote**](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html) has been distorted to hell This is a wonderful object lesson on the dynamic that pervades these debates. Not only was the quote not distorted, not only was it not modified, Ahmadinejad’s own translators certified that it was accurate. [ > [@](#): > > If Mr. Steele and Mr. Cole are right, not one word of the quotation — Israel should be wiped off the map — is accurate. > > But translators in Tehran who work for the president’s office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad’s statement, including a description of it on his Web site (www.president.ir/eng/), refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran’s most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say “wipe off” or “wipe away” is more accurate than “vanish” because the Persian verb is active and transitive. > > The second translation issue concerns the word “map.” Khomeini’s words were abstract: “Sahneh roozgar.” Sahneh means scene or stage, and roozgar means time. The phrase was widely interpreted as “map,” and for years, no one objected. In October, when Mr. Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini, he actually misquoted him, saying not “Sahneh roozgar” but “Safheh roozgar,” meaning pages of time or history. No one noticed the change, and news agencies used the word “map” again. > > Ahmad Zeidabadi, a professor of political science in Tehran whose specialty is Iran-Israel relations, explained: “It seems that in the early days of the revolution the word ‘map’ was used because it appeared to be the best meaningful translation for what he said. The words ‘sahneh roozgar’ are metaphorical and do not refer to anything specific. Maybe it was interpreted as ‘book of countries,’ and the closest thing to that was a map. Since then, we have often heard ‘Israel bayad az naghshe jographya mahv gardad’ — Israel must be wiped off the geographical map. Hard-liners have used it in their speeches.” > > The final translation issue is Mr. Ahmadinejad’s use of “occupying regime of Jerusalem” rather than “Israel.” > > To some analysts, this means he is calling for regime change, not war, and therefore it need not be regarded as a call for military action. Professor Cole, for example, says: “I am entirely aware that Ahmadinejad is hostile to Israel. The question is whether his intentions and capabilities would lead to a military attack, and whether therefore pre-emptive warfare is prescribed. I am saying no, and the boring philology is part of the reason for the no.” > > But to others, “occupying regime” signals more than opposition to a certain government; the phrase indicates the depth of the Iranian president’s rejection of a Jewish state in the Middle East because he refuses even to utter the name Israel. He has said that the Palestinian issue “does not lend itself to a partial territorial solution” and has called Israel “a stain” on Islam that must be erased. By contrast, Mr. Ahmadinejad’s predecessor, Mohammad Khatami, said that if the Palestinians accepted Israel’s existence, Iran would go along. > > When combined with Iran’s longstanding support for Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah of Lebanon, two groups that have killed numerous Israelis, and Mr. Ahmadinejad’s refusal to acknowledge the Holocaust, it is hard to argue that, from Israel’s point of view, Mr. Ahmadinejad poses no threat. Still, it is true that he has never specifically threatened war against Israel. > > So did Iran’s president call for Israel to be wiped off the map? It certainly seems so. ]([http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinreview/11bronner.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinreview/11bronner.html)) This is, in a nutshell, the entire situation with debates about this subject. Here we have a political leader say something and his own official translator say “yep, that’s the correct translation.” Others are falling over themselves to claim that it’s wrong, that it’s Zionist/American propaganda, etc… after it’s been confirmed by the guy’s own translators. Is there any doubt that they’d offer an apologia for other similar situations? If France released a statement in French and produced a certified English translation, would we see quite so many people, quite so ardently, claiming that what France said and certified they meant isn’t what they _reaaaaaaaaly, double-pinky-swear meant_? Why the difference? Could it be the political dynamic that Iran has placed itself in? One wonders what the point even is behind such apologetics. Iran’s presidential figurehead has virtually no real impact on its foreign policy. Rather than this game whereby his defenders reveal that their credibility should be significantly lowered, they could simply say “Yeah, but he’s a wacko, he’s bread and circuses, he doesn’t make the calls and so his ravings can be safely discounted.” Instead we get “He didn’t say what his official translators say he said! That speech looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and from seeing quite a few shopped speeches in my day!” P.S. XT, the relationship between H&H and Iran is… complicated. I’ll see if I can’t elaborate a bit on it in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/62 "2012-02-04T13:27:11Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Just found this thread and must reread for more depth. (Don’t want to be seen as one hit poster.) > > So Israel hits Iran, and there is no pre-agreement on this with the USA. We publicly berate Israel for this “inappropriate” action. Iran leaves us off the hook? Based on the rhetoric and debate so far, why should we assume Iran will believe us? Based on the irrationality of Iran, and the heat of the moment, I would fully expect Iran to lob a few missiles south into the Persian Gulf and say, “Well Satan, you’re in it now!” > > Or worse. Iran arms one of those 1,500 miler missiles it is claimed they have with a nuclear weapon and launches it almost straight up and a bit south. The US military immediately gears up for a potential nuke strike on a carrier battle group in the Gulf (you’ve got to be fuckin’ kidding me!), only to find Iran detonates the nuke in the boost phase, about 100-150 miles up. “Well Satan, you’re in it now! And now you’re blind!” > > Now what? If Israel attacks Iran without approval by the US, I can’t see that Iran will accept that there was no approval. However, they don’t have any nuclear weapons to put on a missile, so I’m not getting how your scenario is possible. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/63 "2012-02-04T14:34:57Z")
I’m still wondering what exactly Iran has done to try to make peace with the US. I’m also fascinated by the psychological process which leads people to deny that Iran (collectively) wants to get rid of Israel. Is it really so hard to admit? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/64 "2012-02-04T15:16:59Z")
Does Iran (our supposed enemy) have a position regarding Israel that is significantly different from that of Saudi Arabia (our supposed ally)? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/65 "2012-02-04T15:41:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Does Iran (our supposed enemy) have a position regarding Israel that is significantly different from that of Saudi Arabia (our supposed ally)? My impression is that Iran’s hatred of Israel is more intense. But I think that ultimately, the prevalent Weltanschauung in most Muslim-dominated countries is that Israel is a stain on their honor; that non-Muslim, non-Arab sovereignty in an area which used to be part of Dar al-Islam is something which is hard for them to accept. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/66 "2012-02-04T17:46:17Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’m not trying to be snarky here, but you do realize that the US has had several disarmament treaties with the USSR/Russia, correct? These DO constitute good faith efforts at disarmament on both sides in what looks to me compliance with the fairly loose language of the NNPT that we signed. I’m no expert, so I’m willing to see some data showing that the US is or has not been in compliance with said treaty, however if you have it. They do, and I’m not disputing this. Honestly, maintaining current stockpiles could be argued either way, and I don’t think any signatory party expected the nuclear nations to just throw the things away overnight. _However_, these nations don’t do just that - they also continue to produce weapon-grade materials from their nuclear plants and build new warheads, as well as exciting new way of delivering their existing ones. Not only does that, in my opinion, is absolutely in contradiction with the very concept of nonproliferation, but it seems like a pretty clear case of hypocrisy and double standards here. If Iran cannot produce even a gram of plutonium or build a single new nuke, then we cannot either, yes ? We did sign the same treaty, did we not ? As for further non-compliance, the wiki cite I pasted earlier quotes the International Court of Justice (which I think we can agree is not Joe’s Shack of Shooting the Shit when it comes to interpreting treaties and international law) as unanimously agreeing that implicit to the treaty was an effort at effectively reducing stockpiles under the strict supervision of international commission. AFAIK, no such commission exists, nor is planned to exist at any point, because nuclear nations have enough clout at the U.N. to nip the very thought in the bud. > [@](#): > > As for building new nukes, afaik the US hasn’t done so for quite some time, at least not on any scale. Part of the complaint I’ve heard from some of the DOE folks I know is that the US DOESN’T build new ones, and that the old ones are, well, getting old. Since they can’t test them, that increasingly has become a problem in gauging their reliability. Again, I’m no expert here, so if you have data to backup your assertion that we’re building a few, a lot or somewhere in-between new nukes I’m certainly all ears. Meet [Trident II](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UGM-133_Trident_II). Developped in the mid 80s, commissioned in 1990, UK’s getting themselves some of them suckers as well. That’s not old junk, unlike Russia’s mnogo rusty rockets (though they, too, are coming up with [the shinies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSM-56_Bulava)). France will [not be left behind](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M51_SLBM). Subs is the new silos, baby. > [@](#): > > In compliance with treaties we’ve agreed upon? Absolutely. In fact, I believe the USSR DID demand inspectors to oversee disposal of treaty decommissioned nuclear weapons, just as we demanded the same from them. AFAIK, and again, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here, no treaty the US has signed necessitates the UN to inspect our nuclear weapons facilities because we aren’t in possible/probable violation of our treaty wrt the NNPT…something that Iran IS. Well, in a sense, you are right than UN inspectors would be wholly unnecessary in this case, because we don’t even pretend to hide that we _have_ active nuclear weapon production facilities, and they’re working just fine thanks for asking. > [@](#): > > Never said I did, though I do believe that by Iran gaining nukes it DOES constitute an existential threat to Israel, considering the clear hostility that Iran has towards Israel. They don’t have to launch the things the instance they get them to be threats to Israel. True enough, but then again Israel’s maybe-we-don’t-maybe-we-do-but-seriously-we-do-guys nukes are just as much of an existential threat to Iran, and there’s not much love for Iran coming from Israel either. Even absent the religious aspect, which is kind of a thing, the two of them would _still_ be at each other’s throats simply because along with Saudi Arabia they’re the big local shakers, movers and influence mongers. Competitors. But while this is absolutely true, and I’m quite certain Iran’s leadership would love nothing more than for Israel to pop out of existence, I don’t think that translates to any \*actual \*threat. China would probably be ecstatic if Japan sunk into the ocean or Russia froze over, or Taiwan stopped being so darn independent all the time. North Korea would gobble South Korea for a stale hamburger. Europe would soil its federal shorts if the US were to vanish, and vice versa. And you know the Brits and French still want to go at it, deep down :D. And yet nothing much is happening on any of these fronts except for underhanded, deniable sneakfuckery and proxy conflicts & manipulations. Because each front is thoroughly well armed and protected, and the consequences of even looking at the neighbour funny would overshadow the benefits of eliminating the competition by orders of magnitude. What makes Iran/Israel any different ? Don’t you think Iran launching on Israel, or vice versa, wouldn’t immediately result in a shitstorm of Biblical proportions ? Or for that matter, what’s the big difference viz. Saudi/Israel ? They too are an oppressive _de facto_ theocracy, they too would like nothing more than to wake up to the sight of an Israel-shaped crater, they too fund and support unsavoury groups when their nationals are not pulling terrorist acts themselves (including 9/11), they too have a nuclear program (and apparently partly funded Iraq’s), and they too have ballistic missiles that could reach Israel. So why are they not part of the BLACK AXIS OF ROGUE EVIL DOOM, exactly ? > [@](#): > > I disagree. As with all things, there are various degrees. I concede that you may not see it that way. I also point out, however, that if the US is considered a ‘rogue state’ because of past actions then so would France…and pretty much everyone else. I never called the US a rogue state, if only because I find the term itself retarded, but that is indeed sort of my point. Every nation is a “rogue state” if and when it figures it can get away with it. As such, labelling this or that country a “rogue state” is utterly meaningless, and using that label as justification for anything is cravenly hypocritical. > [@](#): > > Then show me a cite indicating that we are in fact violating either the letter or spirit of the treaties we’ve signed. Well, there’s the ICJ thing again. But hey, if you’re adamant that the NNPT or any other treaty explicitly allow the US or any other nation to build new nukes, I’m all eyes for your cite. > [@](#): > > They can’t get nukes because they signed a treaty specifically forbidding them from attempting to either acquire or develop nukes. Simple as that. I, again, am puzzled And we signed the same. That being said, I want to clarify something. You stated earlier that Iran could simply officially revoke their involvement in the treaty (which I’m honestly not sure about, but let’s assume it), and that your problem is that they signed one thing back in the day and do another now. So would you have no hangups whatsoever with Iran getting nukes if they simply officially announced “yeah, that NNPT thing, we’re not doing that any more FYI” ? > [@](#): > > The US government didn’t support the IRA. We certainly did provide both funding and some training to the Mujaheddin, but we didn’t run them…they were fighting already, we merely facilitated their continued fighting. Same with the Contras. You needn’t go on, as it’s clear that I see a distinction and you don’t. I concede that who is or isn’t a ‘terrorist’ is debatable. If you want to see the US as a rogue state, or if you think that because the US did some questionable things in the past that means Iran or anyone else is a rogue state that’s entirely up to you. I’m not saying anything of the sort - you’re the one clinging to that rogue state malarkey. I’m just saying it’s very :dubious: of us ; having established a huge global economical and political advantage through ruthless means over the last couple centuries ; to then turn around and pretend like the existing statu quo which is thoroughly rigged in our favour should stay as is for ever ; our newfound morality should be the gold standard NOW ; and condemn anyone who’d use similarly ruthless means (be it sponsoring terrorism to hamstring rivals as Iran does, or exploiting their civilian population like China does) to try and bridge the gap. I mean, I understand why we do it, and we have every incentive and mean \*to \*do it. It’s just, y’know. Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/67 "2012-02-04T18:07:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Or for that matter, what’s the big difference viz. Saudi/Israel ? They too are an oppressive de facto theocracy, they too would like nothing more than to wake up to the sight of an Israel-shaped crater, they too fund and support unsavoury groups when their nationals are not pulling terrorist acts themselves (including 9/11), they too have a nuclear program (and apparently partly funded Iraq’s), and they too have ballistic missiles that could reach Israel. What “terrorist groups” have sworn allegiance to the Saudi King and what “terrorist groups” are receiving funding from the Saudi government? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/68 "2012-02-04T18:08:15Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Really. The only quote of his I remember being “mis-translated” was his “wipe Israel from the map”, but you’re saying most of his have been. > > Would you mind listing several of his other ones that have been mis-translated and the proper translations. > > Thanks Sheesh. Nitpicking much? Yes, I was thinking about his “wipe Israel off the map” quote. Since that is the one that the war brigade uses most of the time I think it’s highly relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/69 "2012-02-04T18:16:16Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Sheesh. Nitpicking much? Yes, I was thinking about his “wipe Israel off the map” quote. Since that is the one that the war brigade uses most of the time I think it’s highly relevant. Ah, so it was only one quote that was “mistranslated” not “most of his quotes” as you claimed? Moreover, as Finn showed earlier, it wasn’t actually mistranslated. In retrospect, don’t you think you should withdraw your claim? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/70 "2012-02-04T18:22:41Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What “terrorist groups” have sworn allegiance to the Saudi King and what “terrorist groups” are receiving funding from the Saudi government? No one needs to swear allegiance to anything. The fact that the Saudis continue to fund schools and support those teaching the extremist Wahhabism, the same school of thought that lead to Al Qaeda, is a black mark on their part for supporting terrorism, and a black mark on the US’s part for continuing to look the other way Lost in all this discussion is the simple acknowledgement that no one who gets nukes will ever use them. Iran with nukes would be little different from Iran without nukes, except that they suddenly couldn’t be invaded so easily by the US or Israel. Nukes are a very good defensive tool, not so much offensive unless you have a thousand of them and are willing to commit suicide ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/71 "2012-02-04T18:27:00Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > True enough, but then again Israel’s maybe-we-don’t-maybe-we-do-but-seriously-we-do-guys nukes are just as much of an existential threat to Iran, and there’s not much love for Iran coming from Israel either. > Even absent the religious aspect, which is kind of a thing, the two of them would _still_ be at each other’s throats simply because along with Saudi Arabia they’re the big local shakers, movers and influence mongers. Competitors. I disagree. First of all, the fact that in the 40 years it’s had nukes, Israel hasn’t even threatened to use them is a close to proof as it is possible to get that Israel won’t use nukes unless in response to a existential threat. Whereas for Iran, we have no such proof. And yes, I know that that’s circular logic - but it’s logic nonetheless. Second of all, there’s no reason why Iran and Israel can’t be friends, especially as Israel has a clear policy of allying itself with non-Arab elements in the Middle East. Iran isn’t Arab, isn’t part of the Sunni majority, and doesn’t border Israel; those reasons alone make it a natural Israeli ally. The fact is, Israel was close with Iran under the Shah, and there’s no reason - other than the Iranians’ religious \*meshugas \*- that it can’t be close to any regime that happens to be ruling the country. There’s no hate here on Israel’s behalf, just self-interest. If the Iranians suddenly decided to open full diplomatic relations with Israel, we’d welcome them with open arms, and wouldn’t make a fuss about whatever weapons they may decide to acquire. As for Saudi Arabia, we don’t like them any more, and respect them much less (after all, at least the Persians are an actual nation-state). They’re too dependent on the West to pull any shit, though, and anyway, the Saudis couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/72 "2012-02-04T18:50:07Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Ah, so it was only one quote that was “mistranslated” not “most of his quotes” as you claimed? > > Moreover, as Finn showed earlier, it wasn’t actually mistranslated. > > In retrospect, don’t you think you should withdraw your claim? I don’t think Finn’s source shows it wasn’t mistranslated actually. In fact as it says, he was clearly referring to a particular regime. Post-revolutionary Iran has never accepted Israel as a Jewish state and Ahmedinejad was merely reiterating that. He never called for the physical destruction of Israel. And you should learn how to use quotation marks properly. Can you point to where I said “most of his quotes” were mistranslated.? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/73 "2012-02-04T18:52:19Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > I don’t think Finn’s source shows it wasn’t mistranslated actually. In fact as it says, he was clearly referring to a particular regime. Post-revolutionary Iran has never accepted Israel as a Jewish state and Ahmedinejad was merely reiterating that. He never called for the physical destruction of Israel. Which particular regime? Israel changes government every three years or so. Would he make friends with a Labor administration? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/74 "2012-02-04T19:00:22Z")
Labour no, but I bet he would get on famously with a Shas-led government. Seriously, clerical Iran has never accepted the existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East. I don’t think Ahmedinejad was saying anything more than that. He certainly wasn’t threatening the physical destruction of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/75 "2012-02-04T19:15:43Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Labour no, but I bet he would get on famously with a Shas-led government. > > Seriously, clerical Iran has never accepted the existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East. I don’t think Ahmedinejad was saying anything more than that. He certainly wasn’t threatening the physical destruction of Israel. Just the physical destruction of its Jewish population? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/76 "2012-02-04T19:28:10Z")
No he wasn’t threatening the physical destruction of anyone. Incidentally here is another good [piece](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/14/post155)by Jonathan Steele which addresses the Ethan Bonner piece in the NYT which I will again note does **not** support the translation of Israel being wiped off the map. It’s also worth pointing out that the Iranian foreign minister specifically [denied](http://www.haaretz.com/news/iranian-fm-denies-wanting-to-wipe-israel-off-the-map-1.180643) the “wipe off the map” statement. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/77 "2012-02-04T19:31:21Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > …Lost in all this discussion is the simple acknowledgement that no one who gets nukes will ever use them. Iran with nukes would be little different from Iran without nukes, except that they suddenly couldn’t be invaded so easily by the US or Israel. Nukes are a very good defensive tool, not so much offensive unless you have a thousand of them and are willing to commit suicide Spot on. And I have no reason to think Iranians are any more suicide prone than any other nuclear-armed nation in the world today. Still, this whole Iran WMD’s increasing hysteria, is quite reminiscent of the weeks/months prior to the Iraq clusterfuck. Hopefully, cooler heads prevail: [**Iran: Fact Checking the Media**](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30437.htm) > [@Dennis Kucinich](#): > > During an interview last month on CBS’ Face the Nation, **Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta set the record straight on Iran: “Are they trying to develop a nuclear weapon? No.”** But if you read recent news reports lately, you’d think otherwise. – bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/78 "2012-02-04T19:31:26Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > And you should learn how to use quotation marks properly. Can you point to where I said “most of his quotes” were mistranslated.? When you claim that “his more intemperate quotes, usually mis-translated or distored” that’s clearly what you’re implying. I suppose if you want to be pedantic I should have said most of his “intemperate quotes” have been mistranslated. As it is, you haven’t shown a single one has been mistranslated. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/79 "2012-02-04T19:41:28Z")
Just because you believe I am implying something doesn’t mean you can put it in quotation marks. If you think I am being pedantic, you clearly don’t know what quotation marks are for. Israel being wiped off the map is clearly a mistranslation of what Ahmedinejad said. The Ethan Bonner piece doesn’t really dispute this; hell even MEMRI doesn’t use that translation. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685/80 "2012-02-04T19:45:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You think this is the only quote from Iranian leaders regarding the situation? Their supreme leader continually talks about the impending arrival of the 12th imam and the rise of Islam. This is not some nut-job like Fred Phelps, this is their religious lead and defacto head of the state. Such as? > [@Ayatollah Ali Khamenei](#): > > _The Islamic Republic’s proposal to help resolve the Palestinian issue and heal this old wound is a clear and logical initiative based on political concepts accepted by world public opinion, which has already been presented in detail. We do not suggest launching a classic war by the armies of Muslim countries, or throwing immigrant Jews into the sea, or mediation by the UN and other international organizations. We propose holding a referendum with [the participation of] the Palestinian nation. The Palestinian nation, like any other nation, has the right to determine their own destiny and elect the governing system of the country._ Linked to in the original response in case you didn’t notice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-ready-to-attack-iran/611685.md?page=5)