# Israel shocked at Swedish tabloid's freedom of speech **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198 "2009-08-21T14:09:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/281 "2009-08-27T20:09:30Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I doubt anyone in the region is getting their news from Swedish tabloids. I’ll try and get Al Jazeera on the satellite tonight and see if they are reporting on the Swedish story. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/282 "2009-08-27T20:15:45Z")
I think it’s fair to say that the article has reached a very much wider audience because of Israel’s reaction, than it would have without. That might be more damaging to the Israeli cause. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/283 "2009-08-27T20:27:14Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > I think it’s fair to say that the article has reached a very much wider audience because of Israel’s reaction, than it would have without. That might be more damaging to the Israeli cause. That may very well be the case, and it may very well be the case that the best reaction to a defamatory smear is always to ignore it for that reason. Except of course that _failure_ to respond to a defamation is just as often seen to be a tacit admission that the defamation is in fact _true_. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/284 "2009-08-27T20:32:16Z")
That doesn’t make every reaction a reasonable one. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/285 "2009-08-27T20:37:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > **treis** - no, not any criticism/accusation. Just this one. > > Have Swedes ever suffered from bigotry? Have you ever been accused of anything? Yes, and yes. And it’s usually true. Sweden semi-secretly supported the nazis - True Sweden had a race biological institute until relatively recently - True Sweden sells arms to war faring countries - True Sweden handed over innocent people to be tortured by Egyp (via the CIA) - True The list goes on and on… and yet, I don’t feel that someone pointing these things out are anti-Swedish. In fact, I often point them out myself since I happen to think they are examples of bad things we do/did and I would like our Government to stop doing them. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/286 "2009-08-27T20:38:24Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I doubt anyone in the region is getting their news from Swedish tabloids. Heh, look at this: > **[The Jerusalem Post - All News from the Middle East, Israel, and the Jewish World](http://www.jpost.com/)** > > The Jerusalem Post is Israel's most-read English news website and best-selling English newspaper bringing breaking news, world news & middle east news. In summary: the family specifically quoted by the news article expressly states that they never, in point of fact, told Mr. Swedish Journalist that they thought the Israelis stole the kid’s organs - he just made that up himself; _however_, they are now demanding an inquiry into whether his organs were, in fact, stolen, _because the possibility was brought up in the news_. Thus is smears and lies made into outrage. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/287 "2009-08-27T20:56:54Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh, look at this: > > [The Jerusalem Post - All News from the Middle East, Israel, and the Jewish World](http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251145107193&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) His _teeth_ were missing? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/288 "2009-08-27T21:14:02Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > His _teeth_ were missing? Some dastardly Israeli needed a bracelet. Or depending on how many teeth were missing, a necklace. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/289 "2009-08-27T21:46:58Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Sweden semi-secretly supported the nazis - True > Sweden had a race biological institute until relatively recently - True > Sweden sells arms to war faring countries - True > Sweden handed over innocent people to be tortured by Egyp (via the CIA) - True How do you know these things are true? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/290 "2009-08-27T21:55:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh, look at this: > > [The Jerusalem Post - All News from the Middle East, Israel, and the Jewish World](http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251145107193&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) > > In summary: the family specifically quoted by the news article expressly states that they never, in point of fact, told Mr. Swedish Journalist that they thought the Israelis stole the kid’s organs - he just made that up himself; _however_, they are now demanding an inquiry into whether his organs were, in fact, stolen, _because the possibility was brought up in the news_. > > Thus is smears and lies made into outrage. Yes, because it came up in the Israeli and other regional newspapers. Not because it was in some Swedish tabloid. If no one made a stink about this it would pass like the thousands of other crazy accusations that are printed in tabloids daily. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/291 "2009-08-27T21:58:30Z")
When I was taking anatomy class in med school, one of the instructors lecturing on the kidney passed out to the class a recipe for steak and kidney pie (he was British). Makes you wonder what’s _really_ going on in Gaza. Could cannibalism be on the menu? (blood-drinking already is according to numerous Arab sources - check out the third and fourth cartoons on [this page](http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Offensive_Cartoons.asp) for hilarious sketches of blood-drinking and cannibalistic Israelis). ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/292 "2009-08-27T22:41:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How do you know these things are true? Because they are issues of public record and/or have been admitted to. Hell, the Swedish version of the book I linked to on this same page details the WW2 stuff. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/293 "2009-08-28T01:30:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Obviously, you think it isn’t. I disagree. Were the Gitmo accusations anti democracy or anti American? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/294 "2009-08-28T01:41:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s directed at a group of people consisting entirely of Jews, who are seen as representing Jews around the world, and it repeats lies that were, in the past, directed against Jews. > > And frankly, I believe you’re being deliberately obtuse. Arising from this: Do you see any material difference between Jew and Israeli? Is Israel seen as speaking for all Jews? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/295 "2009-08-28T02:02:27Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Do you see any material difference between Jew and Israeli? > Is Israel seen as speaking for all Jews? It’s the place we can go to be safe when they throw us out of England, or Spain, or kill us in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/296 "2009-08-28T02:20:59Z")
And [pogroms](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kishinev_pogrom). I forgot [pogroms](http://www.jewishsphere.com/JewishCustoms/RussiaPogrom.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/297 "2009-08-28T02:27:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It’s the place we can go to be safe when they throw us out of England, or Spain, or kill us in Europe. Huh? Have I been whooshed or am I just ignorant? Please explain. And please also answer the question - is Israel seen as speaking for all Jews, and do you see any material difference between being Israeli and Jewish? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/298 "2009-08-28T02:44:57Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > And please also answer the question - is Israel seen as speaking for all Jews, and do you see any material difference between being Israeli and Jewish? I had the realization in a book store in Boston that millions of people want to kill my skinny little ass because I converted to Judaism. While the diaspora may disagree with something Israel does, it is the one place that is safe for us. No, I don’t see them as speaking for me. When the KKK comes for my family, I can run there and be relatively safe. There is more immediate danger in living in Israel were folks shoot rockets at your house than in New Hampshire, where young women at traffic lights call Mrs. Plant a fucking Jew, but its a haven if anything nasty happens here. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/299 "2009-08-28T03:03:29Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Huh? Have I been whooshed or am I just ignorant? Please explain. What don’t you understand about his comment? When America or Europe or whatever becomes anti-Semitic again, then Israel will be there to work for the Jews who are being persecuted. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/300 "2009-08-28T03:21:36Z")
I didn’t explain. We were kicked out of England in the 12th century. When he wrote _The Merchant of Venice,_ Shakespeare had never met, let alone seen, a Jew. Ferdinand and Isabela, gaining political power, were confident to finance Columbus in 1492, and kick us and the Muslims out of Cordoba in Spain. The 15th century in Spain was “The Golden Age” for Jews. We had to wear identifying marks and cross the street to let Muslims pass, but no one was actively trying to kill us, and we could own property and businesses. A Jewish guy who ran a pencil factory was lynched in the USA in the 1920s. Pogroms occurred in Russia from 1898 to 1917, and 1921 in Poland, a country that accepted us when we were thrown out of England. The popular history _Nicholas and Alexandra_ by Robert K. Massey has photographs of the 1905 pogroms where dead Jews are lined up like dead fowl for a shooting party. Any blood libel or other lies that could make these things happen again are taken very seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198.md?page=16)