# Israel shocked at Swedish tabloid's freedom of speech **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198 "2009-08-21T14:09:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/401 "2009-09-01T22:39:24Z")
> [@leander](#): > > I didn’t bring Tutu into this debate, but I’m not going to sit back while you slander him just because he disagrees with your position. Your argument isn’t doing to well here Leander. I know, I know, it’s much easier if you can hop on the meme-wagon and pretend that anybody who criticizes Israel in the slightest way is “slandered”. But, ya know, in order to show how cited facts are “slander” you have to do more than repeat the same fiction again and again and again and again and again. When you’re reduced to the level of claiming that someone’s own public actions and statements are a “slander” against them, it’s pretty clear that your argument is neither accurate, forthright or free of deliberate game-playing. In short, slander has an actual definition. And it aint “whatever Leander would like to pretend it is at the moment.” ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/402 "2009-09-01T22:46:56Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Your argument isn’t doing to well here Leander. > > I know, I know, it’s much easier if you can hop on the meme-wagon and pretend that anybody who criticizes Israel in the slightest way is “slandered”. > But, ya know, in order to show how cited facts are “slander” you have to do more than repeat the same fiction again and again and again and again and again. > > When you’re reduced to the level of claiming that someone’s own public actions and statements are a “slander” against them, it’s pretty clear that your argument is neither accurate, forthright or free of deliberate game-playing. > > In short, slander has an actual definition. And it aint “whatever Leander would like to pretend it is at the moment.” So I’ve provided a quote from your own cite that shows you’re wrong but you’re not actually going to address that, just pretend you’ve “won” the argument. Sorry, that’s not going to work here. Once again, cite one quote from Tutu that shows he’s biased against Israel? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/403 "2009-09-01T22:47:17Z")
> [@leander](#): > > I am shocked, SHOCKED, that this post (not you, remember, I’m talking about the post, so no need to go running to the mods) For fuck’s sake, you flame me in ATMB and spend numerous posts in GD whining about it? Man up or have yourself a good cry and then come back. > [@leander](#): > > say nothing whatsoever of consequence This is really getting pathetic. You purposefully avoid the actual quotations in the cite I provided that deal with Tutu’s publicly stated resentment with Israel for Israel’s actions wrt SA… and instead point to something totally different. And you pretend it’s a refutation? It’s an amusing variation on “Hey… look over there!” Not a particularly savory ploy, though. > [@leander](#): > > Now can you and Alessan please post something factual that actual proves Tutu is biased against Israel? Why should anybody work to prove this latest bullshit fiction that you’ve constructed? If you were to fabricate a claim that Tutu ate babies, would I be obligated to back up that shit too? Nobody said that Tutu was biased against Israel but that he resents the role that Israel played in SA’s history. And, again, the truth of this claim is proven by his own statements. Which, go figure, you went out of your way to not cite. It wasn’t hard to find them in the cite, either. There weren’t that many references to Tutu. How, exactly then, did you manage to miss them and focus on a totally irrelevant quote? This is a silly game. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/404 "2009-09-01T22:50:51Z")
> [@leander](#): > > So I’ve provided a quote from your own cite that shows you’re wrong You keep pointing out that it’s from my own cite, as if your act of deliberately cherrypicking a quote which had nothing at all to do with the claims that have been made and deliberately ignoring the actual facts that do is some sort of refutation. What, exactly, are you not understanding here? Obviously you don’t understand why a quote that doesn’t address the issue… doesn’t address the issue and thus can’t show that I’m wrong. What else aren’t you getting? > [@leander](#): > > but you’re not actually going to address that Again, what aren’t you understanding here? I pointed out that your silly claims had nothing to do with what we’re actually discussing. Why should I have to address them any further? > [@leander](#): > > Once again, cite one quote from Tutu that shows he’s biased against Israel? I’m sorry Leander, you know quite well that I’m not going to attempt to defend this malicious fiction you’ve developed and want to hang on my head. Why on Earth would I try to justify a fiction that you’ve invented and are pretending has anything to do with me? ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/405 "2009-09-01T22:52:21Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > For fuck’s sake, you flame me in ATMB and spend numerous posts in GD whining about it? Man up or have yourself a good cry and then come back. I’m just covering my ass in case you decide once again to go running to the mods. 😛 > [@](#): > > This is really getting pathetic. You purposefully avoid the actual quotations in the cite I provided that deal with Tutu’s publicly stated resentment with Israel for Israel’s actions wrt SA… and instead point to something totally different. And you pretend it’s a refutation? > > It’s an amusing variation on “Hey… look over there!” > Not a particularly savory ploy, though. > > Why should anybody work to prove this latest bullshit fiction that you’ve constructed? If you were to fabricate a claim that Tutu ate babies, would I be obligated to back up that shit too? > Nobody said that Tutu was biased against Israel but that he resents the role that Israel played in SA’s history. And, again, the truth of this claim is proven by his own statements. Which, go figure, you went out of your way to not cite. It wasn’t hard to find them in the cite, either. There weren’t that many references to Tutu. How, exactly then, did you manage to miss them and focus on a totally irrelevant quote? > > This is a silly game. Now you’re pretending that you and Alessan did not dismiss Tutu’s criticism of Israel because of his supposed bias? This is an interesting debate tactic, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/406 "2009-09-01T22:55:54Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > You keep pointing out that it’s from my own cite, as if your act of deliberately cherrypicking a quote which had nothing at all to do with the claims that have been made and deliberately ignoring the actual facts that do is some sort of refutation. > > What, exactly, are you not understanding here? > Obviously you don’t understand why a quote that doesn’t address the issue… doesn’t address the issue and thus can’t show that I’m wrong. > What else aren’t you getting? > > Again, what aren’t you understanding here? > I pointed out that your silly claims had nothing to do with what we’re actually discussing. Why should I have to address them any further? > > I’m sorry Leander, you know quite well that I’m not going to attempt to defend this malicious fiction you’ve developed and want to hang on my head. Why on Earth would I try to justify a fiction that you’ve invented and are pretending has anything to do with me? I guess I must have misunderstood Alessan’s quote that you so rigorously defended then: > [@](#): > > As for Desmond Tutu… it’s no secret that Israel traded with South Africa extensively during Apartheid; it’s not something that we’re proud of today, but we can’t deny it happened. **I wouldn’t blame him for bearing some resentment against my country as a result.** No, of course he’s not talking about bias when he dismisses Tutu’s criticism of Israel. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/407 "2009-09-01T22:56:43Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Now you’re pretending that you and Alessan did not dismiss Tutu’s criticism of Israel because of his supposed bias? > > This is an interesting debate tactic, my friend. Actually, if you’d look back you’d see that I dismissed Tutu’s criticism of Isael because it as factually incorrect. The possible bias was just a bonus. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/408 "2009-09-01T23:02:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Actually, if you’d look back you’d see that I dismissed Tutu’s criticism of Isael because it as factually incorrect. You did no such thing. You dismissed his criticism and instead you just - > [@](#): > > The possible bias was just a bonus. Slandered the man. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/409 "2009-09-01T23:09:18Z")
Post #389, in response to post #382. My original reply: > [@](#): > > Houses destroyed don’t belong to “suspected” terrorists; they belong to dead suicide bombers. They’re used as a form of deterrence for people who are hard to deter. A factual refutation of Tutu’s statement. Besides, accusing a man of disliking a country is not slander. I myself dislike plenty of countries. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/410 "2009-09-01T23:11:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Post #389, in response to post #382. My original reply: > > A factual refutation of Tutu’s statement. Your concept of “factual” is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/411 "2009-09-01T23:13:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Besides, accusing a man of disliking a country is not slander. I myself dislike plenty of countries. That’s not what you did. You accused him of having “resentments” towards Israel so you could dismiss his opinion. Indeed, you came damn close to calling him an anti-semite. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/412 "2009-09-01T23:15:46Z")
Not all people who dislike Israel are anti-semites, you know. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/413 "2009-09-01T23:17:44Z")
> [@leander](#): > > No, of course he’s not talking about bias when he dismisses Tutu’s criticism of Israel. What game is this? Alessan pointed out that blacks under SA’s Apartheid regime could not correctly be equated with Arab Israelis and discussed the mistaken view about demolishing homes or people on the vague suspicion of terrorism. Then he pointed out that Tutu is on record expressing his resentment about Israel’s cooperation with SA (something you still seem to have missed.) Something, also, that’s on the record and proven by Tutu’s own words. You seem to have missed that, too. > [@leander](#): > > Now you’re pretending that you and Alessan did not dismiss Tutu’s criticism of Israel because of his supposed bias? Why should I have to ‘pretend’ something? You do know that when you make shit up, it doesn’t become true? …right? Here, to prove that you’re not making shit up, show anywhere that I said that Tutu’s criticisms of Israel should be dismissed “because of his supposed bias”. It’ll be hard as you’re making it up, but at least try. > [@leander](#): > > This is an interesting debate tactic, my friend. Indeed. One wonders just how you came to make such mistakes. Repeatedly. Speaking of mistakes, the cite you’ve now referenced several times has a total of six pages that mention Tutu by name. Control-F hardly takes ages. And yet, you seem to have missed a full 1/3 of the statements, and, luckily enough, 100% of that 1/3 directly addresses my claims and substantiates them. Hrm… let’s look. Did you, in fact, prove me “wrong” when I said that Tutu repeatedly criticized Israel’s connections with SA? > [@](#): > > A key black figure was Desmond Tutu, archbishop of the Anglican Church in South Africa, who was recognized throughout the world as a symbol of the struggle against apartheid. Archbishop Tutu repeatedly condemned Israel’s ties, military and other, with South Africa Hrmmm. Okay, but surely you weren’t blowing smoke when you claimed you’d somehow proven me wrong about how Tutu said that the black community was upset with the Jewish community due to Isreal’s close ties to SA. Right? > [@](#): > > Despite a bomb threat, a thousand people came to hear him say, inter alia, > that although Jews had been in the forefront of the anti-apartheid struggle from the outset, South Africa’s blacks currently felt a sense of disappointment with the Jewish community because of Israel’s close ties with the white regime. Oh… well, at least you can use the word “slander” an awful lot. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/414 "2009-09-01T23:18:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Not all people who dislike Israel are anti-semites, you know. Are you suggesting Tutu dislikes Israel? FinnAgain’s wonderful cite seems to suggest just the opposite. Also, could you please answer a direct question - do you believe Tutu is an anti-semite? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/415 "2009-09-01T23:23:37Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Are you suggesting Tutu dislikes Israel? FinnAgain’s wonderful cite seems to suggest just the opposite. No, actually, he correctly stated that Tutu resents Israel’s relationship with the SA Apartheid Regime. Something my cite points out which you’ve studiously avoided. Lucky error on your part. > [@leander](#): > > Also, could you please answer a direct question - do you believe Tutu is an anti-semite? :rolleyes: So we’re a step further than “ZOMG nobody can criticize Israel without being called an anti-Semite!” to “Even though you pointed out the fact that Tutu resents Israel’s role wrt SA’s Apartheid regime and never called him an anti-Semite, please deny that you are accusing him of anti-Semitism.” Nice. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/416 "2009-09-01T23:27:17Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > What game is this? Alessan pointed out that blacks under SA’s Apartheid regime could not correctly be equated with Arab Israelis. Then he pointed out that Tutu is on record expressing his resentment about Israel’s cooperation with SA (something you still seem to have missed.) > > Why should I have to ‘pretend’ something? > You do know that when you make shit up, it doesn’t become true? > …right? > > Here, to prove that you’re not making shit up, show anywhere that I said that Tutu’s criticisms of Israel should be dismissed “because of his supposed bias”. > It’ll be hard as you’re making it up, but at least try. > > Indeed. One wonders just how you came to make such mistakes. Repeatedly. > > Speaking of mistakes, the cite you’ve now referenced several times has a total of six pages that mention Tutu by name. Control-F hardly takes ages. And yet, you seem to have missed a full 1/3 of the statements, and, luckily enough, 100% of that 1/3 directly addresses my claims and substantiates them. > > Hrm… let’s look. Did you, in fact, prove me “wrong” when I said that Tutu repeatedly criticized Israel’s connections with SA? > > Hrmmm. Okay, but surely you weren’t blowing smoke when you claimed you’d somehow proven me wrong about how Tutu said that the black community was upset with the Jewish community due to Isreal’s close ties to SA. Right? > > Oh… well, at least you can use the word “slander” an awful lot. This is getting boring. You do know that repeating the same shit over and over again doesn’t really progress things? You defended Alessan’s slanderous comments regarding Tutu - suggesting that he has resentments today as a result of the way Israel behaved in the past. You also seem to miss the point that Alessan made about Israel’s history regarding their relationship with SA under Apartheid. Now you’re saying over and over that blacks and Tutu resented that relationship. Well, duh! Also, did you know that Jews weren’t too happy with the nazis?! The POINT here, which you’re either missing completely or not able to grasp, is that the way Israel acted towards SA under Apartheid (which we all agree was not good, not good, not good - even Alessan gets that, ok?) does not influence Tutu’s opinion today. So let me sum up in case you missed it once again: Israel relationship with SA under Apartheid = bad Tutu not like that Tutu like Israel today and Jews Tutu make criticism of Israel ≠ bias Clear enough? ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/417 "2009-09-01T23:28:31Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, actually, he correctly stated that Tutu resents Israel’s relationship with the SA Apartheid Regime. Something my cite points out which you’ve studiously avoided. Lucky error on your part. > > :rolleyes: > > So we’re a step further than “ZOMG nobody can criticize Israel without being called an anti-Semite!” to “Even though you pointed out the fact that Tutu resents Israel’s role wrt SA’s Apartheid regime and never called him an anti-Semite, please deny that you are accusing him of anti-Semitism.” > > Nice. So you’re not going to answer the questions then? 😉 Btw, resents ≠ resented. See if you can get your head around that one. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/418 "2009-09-01T23:44:56Z")
> [@leander](#): > > So you’re not going to answer the questions then? You mean, where I pointed out that you’re making stuff up and can’t support your claims about what anybody in this thread has actually said because you are using fiction as a bludgeon? Pretty sure I did that. If not, I’ll post for the first time ever “Here, to prove that you’re not making shit up, show anywhere that I said that Tutu’s criticisms of Israel should be dismissed “because of his supposed bias”. It’ll be hard as you’re making it up, but at least try.” > [@leander](#): > > You defended Alessan’s slanderous comments regarding Tutu - suggesting that he has resentments today as a result of the way Israel behaved in the past. Tutu’s own words about his own views aren’t slander. Drop the proxy-martyr act. Nor is it “slanderous” to say that Tutu resents Israel for its conduct. He’s on record as doing so. Nor did he ever go on record as stating that it was just fine to help the SA Apartheid government, showing that his opinions then are still his opinions now. Tutu said he resented Israel for its role in SA. Tutu never said that he no loner resented Israel for that role, especially relevant some of the major Israeli politicians involved in that relationship were still making Israeli policy well into the 21st century. That you’d like to repeat the word “slander!!!” like a mantra does not negate facts. Who’d a thunk it? ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/419 "2009-09-02T00:32:37Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > You mean, where I pointed out that you’re making stuff up and can’t support your claims about what anybody in this thread has actually said because you are using fiction as a bludgeon? Pretty sure I did that. > > If not, I’ll post for the first time ever “Here, to prove that you’re not making shit up, show anywhere that I said that Tutu’s criticisms of Israel should be dismissed “because of his supposed bias”. > It’ll be hard as you’re making it up, but at least try.” > > Tutu’s own words about his own views aren’t slander. Drop the proxy-martyr act. Nor is it “slanderous” to say that Tutu resents Israel for its conduct. He’s on record as doing so. Nor did he ever go on record as stating that it was just fine to help the SA Apartheid government, showing that his opinions then are still his opinions now. > > Tutu said he resented Israel for its role in SA. > Tutu never said that he no loner resented Israel for that role, especially relevant some of the major Israeli politicians involved in that relationship were still making Israeli policy well into the 21st century. > That you’d like to repeat the word “slander!!!” like a mantra does not negate facts. > > Who’d a thunk it? This is too funny. Since you’re not going to, you know, actually respond to my questions directly, instead just repeating “You’re making stuff up!!!” over and over, I’ll just post what I wrote earlier: > [@](#): > > Israel relationship with SA under Apartheid = bad > Tutu not like that > Tutu like Israel today and Jews > Tutu make criticism of Israel ≠ bias Try reading it very slowly. Mouth the words aloud if that helps. No one will know. And also, once again: > [@](#): > > resents ≠ resented If you like I can (yet again) try to explain that one to you. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/420 "2009-09-02T01:23:38Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Since you’re not going to, you know, actually respond to my questions directly, instead just repeating “You’re making stuff up!!!” over and over, I’ll just post what I wrote earlier: Yet again, you are making stuff up. I have responded directly to your comments. You seem to be missing a lot of stuff that’s going in this thread. How are you managing that, exactly? And as you’ve again forgotten that you have to back up your claims, I’ll remind you. Again. Since you just forgot. Again. “Here, to prove that you’re not making shit up, show anywhere that I said that Tutu’s criticisms of Israel should be dismissed “because of his supposed bias”. It’ll be hard as you’re making it up, but at least try.” And no, I’m not going to respond to your silly “ZOMG, so you think Tutu is an anti-Semite???” diversion. We’ve already had that tactic discussed in this thread as it is. You can use Johnson’s political tactics until the cows come home, but it’s rather obviously a diversion designed to get people to deny unpalatable assertions that you’ve simply made up and which bear no relationship to reality. Of course, yep, you’re also making shit up when you claim that there are other questions of yours that I haven’t responded to. How exactly you make quite so many errors which all happen to support the fiction you’re presenting is an interesting question. Also, you have evidently forgotten the rest of the post that you are responding to. And, (lo and behold), you are reposting something and making shit up about about how I didn’t respond to it while, yep, I just responded to it in the very same post you just quoted. Here, let me remind you about that too. "Tutu’s own words about his own views aren’t slander. Drop the proxy-martyr act. Nor is it “slanderous” to say that Tutu resents Israel for its conduct. He’s on record as doing so. Nor did he ever go on record as stating that it was just fine to help the SA Apartheid government, showing that his opinions then are still his opinions now. Tutu said he resented Israel for its role in SA. Tutu never said that he no loner resented Israel for that role, especially relevant some of the major Israeli politicians involved in that relationship were still making Israeli policy well into the 21st century. That you’d like to repeat the word “slander!!!” like a mantra does not negate facts. " It’s interesting that while quoting a post that directly responds to your statements, you think it’s a good idea to make shit up and claim that your statements have gone unchallenged. Who do you think you’re fooling when the very post you quoted contains a direct response you’re claiming doesn’t exist? How, exactly, do you keep making such mistakes? For your next trick, why don’t you post lots of text about how democrats resented Bush’s conduct during his term, but resent =/= resented so they’re probably all fine with it now and no longer resent it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198.md?page=22)