# Israel shocked at Swedish tabloid's freedom of speech **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198 "2009-08-21T14:09:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/141 "2009-08-25T14:15:53Z")
Just adding that the publication has been reported to the Justice Chancellor who is the government prosecutor for Freedom of the Press cases. He says that they will examine the article, but adds that these cases usually don’t take long to judge. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/142 "2009-08-25T14:29:29Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > The article was interesting and somewhat controversial, but the response to it is beyond retardation. > > We have free press and Aftonbladet isn’t run by the government. The government should neither be condemning or defending the content, they should only (and ferociously) be defending the newspapers right to publish. > > The highlight of the debacle was when Israels ambassador said that in the future, Israel would not give much weight to complains from Sweden regarding transgressions of human rights in Israel and Palestine. That has some serious comedic value considering that Israel has never, ever given a fuck about those complaints, and Sweden is possibly the most servile and cowardly state in the world when it comes to voicing them. > > Two questions that have yet to be answered: > > 1. Is all critisism of Israel by definition anti-semitic? If not, what sort of critisism or questioning is ok? > > 2. IF it would turn out that the suspicions aired in the article are tru. That in fact Israeli military does harvest Palestinians for organs. Would it STILL be anti-semitic to claim that? 1. Yes, of course. All criticism of any kind is anti-semitic. 2. Yes, naturally. If the IDF were running concentration camps to fatten Palestinians for feasting on, and one had absolute proof, merely mentioning the fact makes you worse than Hitler. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/143 "2009-08-25T14:30:20Z")
Just citing one relevant part of our constitution: [QUOTE=The Fundamental Law on the Freedom of Expression] Art. 4. Public authorities and other public bodies may not intervene against any person on grounds that he has abused the freedom of expression or contributed to such abuse in a radio programme or technical recording, except by virtue of this Fundamental Law. Nor may they intervene against the programme or recording on such grounds, except by virtue of this Fundamental Law. Art. 5. A person appointed to pass judgment concerning abuses of the freedom of expression or otherwise oversee compliance with this Fundamental Law should bear in mind that the freedom of expression is fundamental to a free society. He should direct his attention always to the aim rather than the manner of presentation. In case of doubt, he should acquit rather than convict. [/QUOTE] And [QUOTE=The Freedom of the Press Act] Art. 2. There shall be no scrutiny of any written matter prior to printing, nor shall it be permitted to prohibit the printing thereof. Nor shall it be permitted for a public authority or other public body to take any action not authorised under this Act to prevent the printing or publication of written matter, or its dissemination among the general public, on grounds of its content. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/144 "2009-08-25T14:35:50Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > You miss the point. No one is suggesting the story should not be opposed. What they are saying is that Israel shouldn’t commit moral blackmail in the way that it tends to do in such circumstances. It smacks of entitlement, special pleading and whineyness. > > Jews may be entitled, they may have a case for special pleading, and they may be being wronged, but regardless all they are doing is making the position worse. > > Personally if a person says they’ve been defamed in an article I’ll listen. But what if I say I think the defamation against them is “shocking and appalling” but that I won’t condemn the article on a point of principle about freedom of expression although the only thing that my government has been uniformly against is the sentiment behind such articles, and the person doesn’t think that’s enough and start accusing me of agreeing with the article? I’ll think they may have been defamed, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t carrying on like a jerk. > > Even if Sweden isn’t your friend that would hardly be the point since many others are watching. And this sort of thing isn’t limited to this story. Every second criticism of what Israel, the nation, does provokes a tantrum about how it’s all motivated by anti-semitism or some other similar attempt to choke off any kind of discussion. The problem here is that it is literally impossible to “sensibly discuss” an urban legend used to defame you. There is no way of disproving it. The reason Israelis tend to act dismissively or angrily to such messages is that they are ubiquitous, they tend to be based on traditional anti-semitic canards, and they are widely believed to be true because they feed into a culture predisposed to believe them. It is much, I imagine, as Black people tend to react to another “discovery” that they are biologically less intelligent than White folks. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/145 "2009-08-25T14:38:05Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > Just citing one relevant part of our constitution: > > And How is this relevant? The Israelis are not asking for a conviction or for censorship. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/146 "2009-08-25T14:42:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Name another case where it’s been applied to an entire ethnic group instead of an organization. It isn’t being applied to an entire ethnic group in this case either. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/147 "2009-08-25T14:48:30Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Name another case where it’s been applied to an entire ethnic group instead of an organization. [/QUOTE] Sorry for the nonstandard quote, suddenly the quotebutton don’t work for me. Israel is no more an ethnic group than China so in this case this isn’t being applied to an ethnic group. Nobody have accused Jews of organlegging, the article hint that Israel or groups in Israel commit this crime. Myths about other ethnic groups abound everywhere. Jews are certainly not singled out in that respect, Gypsies, Inuit, Arabs, you will find myths and misunderstandings about all. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/148 "2009-08-25T14:49:32Z")
Malthus, your post works better without that green blob at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/149 "2009-08-25T14:52:00Z")
> [@Mikkel](#): > > Sorry for the nonstandard quote, suddenly the quotebutton don’t work for me. > > Israel is no more an ethnic group than China so in this case this isn’t being applied to an ethnic group. Nobody have accused Jews of organlegging, the article hint that Israel or groups in Israel commit this crime. > Myths about other ethnic groups abound everywhere. Jews are certainly not singled out in that respect, Gypsies, Inuit, Arabs, you will find myths and misunderstandings about all. The article also hints that Jews _not_ in Israel are in league with them. This feeds into pre-existing anti-semitic canards. I rather disagree with the equivalence argument. In European and Middle Eastern culture, the treatment of Jews tends to be … special. Only the treatment of Roma comes close - certainly not Innuit or Arabs. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/150 "2009-08-25T14:55:14Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > How is this relevant? The Israelis are not asking for a conviction or for censorship. Well, that is the same question that I asked myself after reading it. It is a valid question. However, in a similar vein as what **Rune** said about the Muhammed affair, after which the Committee on the Constitution’s commented, and their interpretation is what is being quoted now. That is, that ANY interference can cause pressure that can affect future publication decisions, and that this is unwanted. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/151 "2009-08-25T15:02:49Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > Well, that is the same question that I asked myself after reading it. It is a valid question. > > However, in a similar vein as what **Rune** said about the Muhammed affair, after which the Committee on the Constitution’s commented, and their interpretation is what is being quoted now. That is, that ANY interference can cause pressure that can affect future publication decisions, and that this is unwanted. This may well be the case; I do not know what the exact function of the Committee is. Does it make law, or does in simply announce policy? In any event, it would appear that there is nothing in the written constitutional law that would prevent the gov’t from commenting on an article; it is more in the nature of committee-made law/policy. The existence of such a law or policy is not the norm in Western nations. Most other national govt’s are _not_ prevented from commenting on press articles (though in Canada I believe it is policy that the Prime Minister’s Office will not comment on articles which cite anonymous sources). That’s the issue really - it is slightly misleading to cast it as a battle between common Western notions of press freedom vs. obscurantism, when what is at issue is a somewhat unsusual Swedish restriction. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/152 "2009-08-25T15:06:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Because Israel’s problem isn’t so much with the article itself - people will always say things like that - but rather with the public mindset that sees such beliefs as perfectly acceptable. That’s why we want the representatives of the Swedish public to reassure use that they \*don’t \*believe in such things. > > Europeans used to openly believe many horrible things about Jews, and did many horrible things to them as a result. Israelis believe that this sickness has not been wiped out, but has merely gone into remission, and that it is slowly re-emerging in the form of anti-Israeli slander. Not that criticizing Israeli is inherently anti-semitic; it’s just that all too often, the anti-semitism inherent in European culture is often expressed as anti-Israeli criticism. When it does, as in the case at hand, it has to be stamped out immediately. “Europeans used to believe…” blah blah fucking blah. There are close to a billion people living in Europe, from Turkey to Norway to Spain, it’s not exactly a homogenous group. The whole anti-semitic BS is so boring and far from reality. Please. Not many people gives a shit about jews. Why would someone bother being “anti” about jews post-Hitler? The only ones with some real anti-semitism are muslim immigrants, and how much influence do they have. Fuck all, that’s how much. Talk to the average person in the UK, Spain or Denmark about jews and they won’t know what the hell you’re on about. The only other group that cares about jews really doesn’t care about jews, it cares about the Israeli government. Political opponents on the left critisising the extreme right wing policies and crimes against human rights committed by Israel. And the crybabies in Tel Aviv handles critisism from wherever it may come in the same way every time, they cry anti-semitism. And is it BEYOND COMPREHENSION that the IDF would be doing something immoral? Unethical or even illegal? Give me a break. Every military force in the world does it, not just “evil” ones and not just NATO-lead ones. You don’t think Israeli soldiers rape Palestinian women from time to time? Please, what would make them so special? You don’t think there’s unjustified torture and murder? You’re living in a dream world. If you shoot a guy and he has a really expensive watch, are you gonna go back to the guys family and hand it over and apologise for killing their son but hey you were only doing your job? Yeah right. I have no idea if the IDF has been involved in illegal organ trade, but it’s not beyond the realm of possibilities. And thinking it doesn’t make me an anti-semite. Maybe a misanthrope or cynic, but there’s a pretty fucking huge amount of empirical data to support that view of people. I doubt jews are very much better or worse than any other group of people. And they’re all pretty capable of bad shit. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/153 "2009-08-25T15:13:30Z")
Whoah. I think you just invented the _nos quoque_. “Our soldiers do it, so yours must too!” It’s a pretty good argument, really. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/154 "2009-08-25T15:16:10Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It isn’t being applied to an entire ethnic group in this case either. It’s not being applied to all Jews, but my point was that it was not being applied only to an Israeli group, comparable to “the Russian mafia.” > [@Mikkel](#): > > Israel is no more an ethnic group than China so in this case this isn’t being applied to an ethnic group. Yes, it is. [HERE’S THE ARTICLE IN ENGLISH.](http://www.israel-palestinenews.org/2009/08/farwana-all-facts-on-ground-prove.html) [I don’t think a full translation has been posted so far.] The author implicates the Israeli army, health authorities, many doctors, and others. So no, he is not just implicating a group in Israel, he’s suggesting the army over there is killing Palestinians for their organs, and the government and the medical profession are involved at high levels. > [@](#): > > In the summer of 1992, Ehud Olmert, then minister of health, tried to address the issue of organ shortage by launching a big campaign aimed at having the Israeli public register for post-mortem organ donation. […] > > While the campaign was running, young Palestinian men started to disappear from villages in the West Bank and Gaza. After five days Israeli soldiers would bring them back dead, with their bodies ripped open. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/155 "2009-08-25T15:16:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Whoah. I think you just invented the _nos quoque_. “Our soldiers do it, so yours must too!” > > It’s a pretty good argument, really. It is easy for a rogue soldier to make off with a spare Rolex. Not so easy to make off with a spare _kidney_. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/156 "2009-08-25T15:20:54Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > “Europeans used to believe…” blah blah fucking blah. There are close to a billion people living in Europe, from Turkey to Norway to Spain, it’s not exactly a homogenous group. > > The whole anti-semitic BS is so boring and far from reality. Please. Not many people gives a shit about jews. Why would someone bother being “anti” about jews post-Hitler? The only ones with some real anti-semitism are muslim immigrants, and how much influence do they have. Fuck all, that’s how much. Talk to the average person in the UK, Spain or Denmark about jews and they won’t know what the hell you’re on about. > > The only other group that cares about jews really doesn’t care about jews, it cares about the Israeli government. Political opponents on the left critisising the extreme right wing policies and crimes against human rights committed by Israel. And the crybabies in Tel Aviv handles critisism from wherever it may come in the same way every time, they cry anti-semitism. > > And is it BEYOND COMPREHENSION that the IDF would be doing something immoral? Unethical or even illegal? Give me a break. Every military force in the world does it, not just “evil” ones and not just NATO-lead ones. You don’t think Israeli soldiers rape Palestinian women from time to time? Please, what would make them so special? You don’t think there’s unjustified torture and murder? You’re living in a dream world. If you shoot a guy and he has a really expensive watch, are you gonna go back to the guys family and hand it over and apologise for killing their son but hey you were only doing your job? Yeah right. > > I have no idea if the IDF has been involved in illegal organ trade, but it’s not beyond the realm of possibilities. And thinking it doesn’t make me an anti-semite. Maybe a misanthrope or cynic, but there’s a pretty fucking huge amount of empirical data to support that view of people. I doubt jews are very much better or worse than any other group of people. And they’re all pretty capable of bad shit. With most other countries you begin with something like ‘anti-Government’ but with Israel you have more options. Not so long ago you could even be ‘anti-Sharron’ before ‘anti-Government’. Then you might move on to anti-Zionist’ or ‘anti-Imperial’ – referencing Israel’s regional supremacy. Finally, when you had no where to go, you could suggest someone ‘had a problem’ with Jews or even charge them with the ultimate, holocaust referencing ‘anti-Semitism’. Except no one did and never have, the default position is to cite ‘anti-Semitism’ immediately and by doing so stifle debate on any issue it is deemed appropriate to stifle debate. This is one of them. It works in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/157 "2009-08-25T15:21:53Z")
[http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/why-the-israeli-organ-harvesting-story-is-probably-false/](http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/why-the-israeli-organ-harvesting-story-is-probably-false/) > [@](#): > > The Times article asserts that Boström’s article “was based on accusations Mr. Bostrom heard from Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza in the 1990’s, and which he published in a book on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in 2001.” > > That would certainly give one pause as to the veracity of the charge. This isn’t to say that all rumors are untrue, but there is perhaps no easier trap for a journalist to fall into than to listen to the harshest accusations of one group of people that is at war with another. > > But there is probably a better reason to discount the accusation. > > Al Roth, the Harvard economist whose work on matched-pair organ donations has started to transform the organ-transplantation scenario, told me he found the accusation unbelievable because of the logistics of organ harvesting itself. “Organs don’t last very long and have to be matched rather particularly,” he said, “so it would be hard to take them on spec for an international market. So I think black market organs must mostly be from live donors. Live donors can take blood tests well in advance and travel to where the patient is. Deceased organs have to be put on ice, and the clock starts ticking immediately and fast.” ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/158 "2009-08-25T15:27:49Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > This may well be the case; I do not know what the exact function of the Committee is. Does it make law, or does in simply announce policy? > > In any event, it would appear that there is nothing in the written constitutional law that would prevent the gov’t from commenting on an article; it is more in the nature of committee-made law/policy. > > The existence of such a law or policy is not the norm in Western nations. Most other national govt’s are _not_ prevented from commenting on press articles (though in Canada I believe it is policy that the Prime Minister’s Office will not comment on articles which cite anonymous sources). > > That’s the issue really - it is slightly misleading to cast it as a battle between common Western notions of press freedom vs. obscurantism, when what is at issue is a somewhat unsusual Swedish restriction. You are probably right in that observation. Unfortunately I am not as knowledgeable about Swedish legal matters as I should be. During my time here on the Dope and previous internet addiction I have accumulated more knowledge about the US system than our own :smack:. My understanding though is that the Committee doesn’t make law, but they decide if a member of the government should be prosecuted in the Supreme Court. So after the Muhammed thing our FM was referred there and questioned and so on, and they issued comments which probably can be seen as policy, but not strictly law. Here’s a rather thin Wiki article, not much to learn there though: [Committee on the Constitution - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_the_Constitution_%28Parliament_of_Sweden%29) Hopefully somebody here knows how this works better than me, though I doubt we have any Swedish lawyers around. I will try to read up a little on the subject. ETA: Their english page has more info: [http://www.riksdagen.se/templates/R\_Page\_\_\_\_5772.aspx](http://www.riksdagen.se/templates/R_Page ____ 5772.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/159 "2009-08-25T15:31:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s not being applied to all Jews, but my point was that it was not being applied only to an Israeli group, comparable to “the Russian mafia.” Color me confused. Here’s the chain of posts: > [@Marley23](#): > > You must be kidding. The organ harvesting thing is just an updated version of the original blood libel. > [@treis](#): > > No its not. The stealing organs thing is a wide spread urban legend that has been applied to any number of groups from the Russian mafia to the Chinese government. It has nothing to do with religion, and bears only the slightest connection to blood libels. > [@Marley23](#): > > Name another case where it’s been applied to an entire ethnic group instead of an organization. > [@treis](#): > > It isn’t being applied to an entire ethnic group in this case either. > [@Marley23](#): > > It’s not being applied to all Jews, but my point was that it was not being applied only to an Israeli group, comparable to “the Russian mafia.” Your original contention seemed to be that this organ stealing accusation was different because it was directed at an ethnic group. Now it appears that you are saying that it is not directed towards an ethnic group. If that is the case, then how can it be anti-semetic, and how can it be a new manifestation of ancient blood libels? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198/160 "2009-08-25T15:32:12Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > With most other countries you begin with something like ‘anti-Government’ but with Israel you have more options. Not so long ago you could even be ‘anti-Sharron’ before ‘anti-Government’. Then you might move on to anti-Zionist’ or ‘anti-Imperial’ – referencing Israel’s regional supremacy. Finally, when you had no where to go, you could suggest someone ‘had a problem’ with Jews or even charge them with the ultimate, holocaust referencing ‘anti-Semitism’. > > Except no one did and never have, the default position is to cite ‘anti-Semitism’ immediately and by doing so stifle debate on any issue it is deemed appropriate to stifle debate. This is one of them. > > It works in the USA. This isn’t your usual case of allegedly “stifling debate” on legitimate points of difference - it is one of nailing what is very clearly a defamatory urban myth. Fact is that the same urban myth has been peddled for years by people with an axe to grind on the subject of Jews. Example, from 2002: http: [//www.stormfront.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-21815.html](https://www.stormfront.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-21815.html) > [@](#): > > ## Ukrainian Activist and Hero Writes to Zionist Leader (10 May 2002) > > * * * > > Israel Asper, Executive Chairman > CanWest Global Communications Corp. > 3100 TD Centre, 201 Portage Avenue > Winnipeg MB R3B 3L7 > > Israel Asper: > In one of your newspapers, The Windsor Star of 09-Apr-2002, p. C10, I read > that your father, Leon, was a violinist trained at the Odessa Conservatory > and your mother, Cecilia, was a concert pianist. Your parents seem to have > managed their accomplishments in Ukraine in the face of what writer Zev > Singer would have us believe was an adverse environment: “Escaping the > pogroms of their native Ukraine, Cecilia and Leon Asper came to Canada in > the early 1920s.” > In order to avoid giving the impression that you are using your newspaper > empire to keep alive the nurtured hatreds and hyperbolized grievances of > your ancestors, I wonder if you could not introduce some balance to your > coverage of Ukrainian-Jewish relations? > Was a Ukrainian Murdered That A Jew Might Live? > For example, a story that is both more recent and more urgent than that of > your parents escaping Ukrainian “pogroms,” and perhaps more credible as > well, and one which I don’t think you have permitted your newspaper empire > to allude to as yet, is the following: > > (1) UKRAINIAN ECHO 07 January 2002 (Page 22) > A view of the press in Ukraine > > - KHMELNYTSKY > “Returned from foreign labor … without his heart.” Underneath such a > headline, this newspaper relates that, reduced to despair by extreme > material straits, a 39-year-old Khmelnytsky resident took a job in Israel. > However, the terrible news shortly arrived that he had died there of > poisoning by a tainted alcoholic beverage (even though all domestic sources > insist that he never drank!). The body of the unfortunate worker was > returned to Ukraine for burial. However, medical experts discovered that he > was missing … his heart! At the moment, this dreadfully-inhuman affair is > being investigated with the help of Interpol… (Ukrinform, 23 November). > WERE Ukrainians KILLED SO THAT A JEW MIGHT LIVE? It doesn’t take a genius to see that this is simply … more of the same. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-shocked-at-swedish-tabloids-freedom-of-speech/507198.md?page=9)