# Israel vs Gaza 2021… wtf? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 15, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168 "2021-05-15T16:20:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/1 "2021-05-15T16:20:40Z")
Okay, lots going on here but this incident today prompted this thread: > **[Statement: AP 'horrified' by Israeli attack on its office](https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-f595d0ea0a7e21a4e4974ae55e00024d)** > > An Israeli airstrike destroyed a high-rise building in Gaza City that housed offices of The Associated Press and other media outlets on Saturday. > [@](#): > > AP President and CEO Gary Pruitt has released the following statement: > > We are shocked and horrified that the Israeli military would target and destroy the building housing AP’s bureau and other news organizations in Gaza. They have long known the location of our bureau and knew journalists were there. We received a warning that the building would be hit. > > We are seeking information from the Israeli government and are engaged with the U.S. State Department to try to learn more. > > This is an incredibly disturbing development. We narrowly avoided a terrible loss of life. A dozen AP journalists and freelancers were inside the building and thankfully we were able to evacuate them in time. > > The world will know less about what is happening in Gaza because of what happened today. I’m pretty sure that last sentence is the key, eh. Here’s the AP’s actual news story about the bombing: > **[Israel strikes Gaza home of Hamas leader, destroys AP office](https://apnews.com/article/israel-west-bank-gaza-middle-east-israel-palestinian-conflict-7974cc0c03897b8b21e5fc2f8c7d8a79)** > > Israel has escalated its attacks on the Gaza Strip, bombing the home of a senior Hamas leader, killing a family of 10 in a refugee camp and destroying a high-rise that housed The Associated Press and other media. So here’s a thread to discuss what’s going on, because with this event I’m really, _really_ feeling like Israel is about to kill and/or displace tens or hundreds of thousands of people based on their religion/ethnicity, and I don’t think that’s cool. I admit that I know enough to know that I don’t know enough to have hard, set-in-stone opinions tho: there is a LOT of background that brought us to the current situation. But deliberately bombing news organizations seems beyond the pale. If that line is being crossed what other lines will be crossed? Oh, and I note with no satisfaction that _duh_, of course [Jared’s (and Donald’s) Middle East Peace Plan](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jareds-and-donalds-middle-east-peace-plan/819009/22) is just a bunch of useless fucking bullshit. So: where is this going? Where should it go? How will we get there? And will everyone be happy when we do? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/2 "2021-05-15T16:26:16Z")
I’m an American Jew and I’ve grown up with some positive feelings for the only nation that promises to take me in if things really get bad for Jews. But I was really disturbed by this. They’ve been bombing apartment buildings, and now they are bombing the reporters. (They did give the residents notice that they planned to destroy the building, so I think the reporters got out.) It wasn’t just AP, Al Jazeera had offices there, too, and I suspect others. Yeah, when you start bombing the journalists, you are in the wrong. And you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/3 "2021-05-15T16:46:38Z")
How much of this is Netanyahu and politics and his trial? “Witness testimony began on 5 April 2021.” says Wikipedia So is it a distraction and/or an attempt to appeal to his base and build political strength? The other question is, how bad will this have to get before the US takes some action, even if only symbolic (e.g. move the embassy back to Tel Aviv). If past history is any guide, pretty much no country is going to do much about it, and it will make just one more ugly chapter in the history of Israeli-Palestinian relations. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/4 "2021-05-15T16:51:33Z")
Does anyone have a link to a purely factual and neutral summary of developments in the past few weeks/months that have led up to this? I was off the grid hiking for several weeks so I’m really behind the curve on this, and I just can’t find a good source that’s not dominated by the horrific headline violence. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/5 "2021-05-15T16:55:41Z")
The AP ran this yesterday; I found it useful: > **[EXPLAINER: Why is Gaza almost always mired in conflict?](https://apnews.com/article/why-is-gaza-almost-always-mired-in-conflict-e351bb1456155dd0b2e4d6bcbe716dad)** > > GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — The Gaza Strip was pounded this week by hundreds of Israeli strikes from sea, land and air, while the enclave's militant Hamas rulers fired hundreds of rockets into Israel. ETA: there was also a recap of the events that began with the police hassling people at the mosque; when I locate it I’ll post it. EATA: Found it: > **[EXPLAINER: What's behind the clashes in Jerusalem?](https://apnews.com/article/jerusalem-middle-east-lifestyle-government-and-politics-43d4cab031c28da0abf98d694dd169ac)** > > JERUSALEM (AP) — For weeks now, Palestinian protesters and Israeli police have clashed on a daily basis in and around Jerusalem's Old City, home to major religious sites sacred to Jews, Christians and Muslims and the emotional epicenter of the Middle... ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/6 "2021-05-15T17:04:10Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > How much of this is Netanyahu and politics and his trial? It is not too surprising that this kind of stuff coincidentally happens when there are elections in Israel. Not that Netanyahu orchestrated it, but he is an expert in taking advantage of these kinds of situations and neutralizing political opposition in general. I think Lapid still has a couple of weeks to form a government, though. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/7 "2021-05-15T17:06:47Z")
Does anyone think this will help? All of this has happened so often in the past and it did not help then. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/8 "2021-05-15T17:10:41Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, when you start bombing the journalists, you are in the wrong. And you know it. But launching thousands of rockets directly into civilian cities is okay. That’s just killing Jews, so it doesn’t matter. (posted while locked in the bomb shelter of my house in Tel Aviv) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/9 "2021-05-15T17:13:38Z")
Trevor Noah did a good piece on this a few days ago (8:54): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/NeZ4yXyzUG0/maxresdefault.jpg "Let’s Talk About the Israel-Palestine Conflict | The Daily Show") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeZ4yXyzUG0) Michael Brooks had similar thoughts (queued video): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/62I61kBahNY/maxresdefault.jpg "Michael Brooks takes a question on Israel") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62I61kBahNY) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/10 "2021-05-15T17:14:34Z")
No one here has said that. I _seriously_ doubt anyone here thinks that. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/11 "2021-05-15T17:22:31Z")
The Commissioner of the Israel Police, Kobi Shabtai, [blames far-right religious fundamentalist Itamar Ben-Gvir for stirring unrest](https://www.timesofisrael.com/police-chief-said-to-blame-far-right-lawmaker-ben-gvir-for-internal-intifada/). Ben-Gvir was elected to the Knesset this year. > [@](#): > > During a briefing, Shabtai said that every time police appear to be getting an area under control, Ben Gvir, the Kahanist member of the Religious Zionism party, shows up to fan the flames, Channel 12 and Channel 13 news both reported. > > “The person who is responsible for this intifada is Itamar Ben Gvir. It started with the Lehava protest at Damascus Gate,” Shabtai said, referring to far-right demonstrations around Jerusalem’s Old City. “It continued with provocations in Sheikh Jarrah, and now he is moving around with Lehava activists.” > > Lehava opposes assimilation and intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews, as well as LGBT rights, and tries to stifle any public activity by non-Jews in Israel, including coexistence events. Lawmakers across the political spectrum have tried to designate it as a terrorist group. He sounds like an evil man, reminiscent of Ian Paisley in Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/12 "2021-05-15T17:29:20Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > How much of this is Netanyahu and politics and his trial? > > “Witness testimony began on 5 April 2021.” says Wikipedia > > So is it a distraction and/or an attempt to appeal to his base and build political strength? Right now, Netanyahu’s opposition is trying to form a unity coalition, and it’s very likely that the only possible coalition will have to include Zionists from a wide range of the political spectrum as well as Arab parties including the Islamists, and will possibly even Orthodox parties. It was already a tall order to ask all of those groups to put aside their differences for long enough for the Netanyahu trial, and I think it’s going to be much harder now unfortunately. The main events that kicked this off were the Sheikh Jarrah evictions and the clashes at the Al-Aqsa mosque. The evictions I believe were already planned to occur around now for a long time back and the mosque clashes are related to a holiday, so I don’t think Netanyahu could have possibly messed with the timing. I do think it’s pretty reasonable to believe that he’s letting the situation escalate as much as possible because it’s going to make it tougher for his political opponents to compromise on big ideological questions and unite around corruption. EDIT: “related to a holiday” was a poor choice of words. People were going to the mosque for the Jumu’atul-Wida holiday. The clashes resulted from protests and violence around those gatherings. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/13 "2021-05-15T17:31:10Z")
I read something else about him and the Kahanes; I’ll see if I can find it. ETA: > **[Radical rabbi's followers rise in Israel amid new violence](https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-violence-religion-0dcc4073d660003f4e3fa8d4ed0a9a6a)** > > JERUSALEM (AP) — In the 1980s, Rabbi Meir Kahane's violent anti-Arab ideology was considered so repugnant that Israel banned him from parliament and the U.S. listed his party as a terrorist group. Today, his disciples march through the streets by the... ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/14 "2021-05-15T17:55:41Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > (posted while locked in the bomb shelter of my house in Tel Aviv) That’s so much more bad-ass than that “Posted on my iPhone via Tappitytalky” sig… ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/15 "2021-05-15T17:57:43Z")
I tend to think that it was right wing activism that started organically and Netanyahu took advantage of it. Perhaps some in his circles knew what was going to happen in advance and telegraphed that information back to Bibi. Whatever its origins, just more of the same. And predictably it puts the US, particularly moderate Dems like Joe Biden, in the awkward spot of having to stand with Israel, whatever they decide to do, while cautioning against an overreaction, which is almost inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/16 "2021-05-15T18:09:33Z")
There’s not going to be a lull in the fighting for months now. Many, many people will be caught in it and killed. In the end, waves of bloody violence like this will happen because of the abundence of enciting incendents by hard-line Israeli leaders/population, which triggers both reactionary resistance by Palestinians and terrorism by organized groups like Hamas. I’ll restate my position. The only way out is if all parties buy into a future of peace. This won’t happen unless Palestinians are given 1. a viable state of their own or 2. a vote in the exsisting state of Israel (and thus political power to peacefully exert their wishes). I don’t see a third way. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/17 "2021-05-15T18:12:34Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > That’s so much more bad-ass than that “Posted on my iPhone via Tappitytalky” sig… the only answer I can give to this would be in the Pit. But I hope other people reading this thread will realize that there just might be something immoral about an Islamic terrorist government that aims its bomb exclusively at civilian targets. In the video linked above by Trevor Noah , he attempts to dismiss the attacks as totally nothing to get worried about, because Israel has a missile defense system that works very well, so most of the attacker’s bombs don’t do much damage, so gee whiz, there’s nothing wrong with indiscriminate bombing of several million civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/18 "2021-05-15T18:24:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > So here’s a thread to discuss what’s going on, because with this event I’m really, _really_ feeling like Israel is about to kill and/or displace tens or hundreds of thousands of people based on their religion/ethnicity, and I don’t think that’s cool. I do not believe that this remotely about to happen. Violence in Gaza likely is not a prelude to any large scale displacement. The occupied Palestinian territories are divided in basically three conceptual areas: Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank (East Jerusalem and the West Bank are physically adjacent and are on the Eastern side of Israel with Jordan further east, the Gaza strip is on the Western side of Israel and borders Egypt.) Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip a number of years ago, and this included removing all Israeli settlements from the strip. So Israel does not really have territorial ambitions in Gaza, in fact it would probably love it if Egypt agreed to annex it, which they will never do (and which the Palestinians would probably oppose.) If Israel was looking like it was gearing up to roll into the West Bank a fear of mass displacement could be valid (although still unlikely), but Israel just doesn’t have territorial ambitions in Gaza. There are no Jews living there and they have taken the approach of just walling it off for awhile now. > I admit that I know enough to know that I don’t know enough to have hard, set-in-stone opinions tho: there is a LOT of background that brought us to the current situation. But deliberately bombing news organizations seems beyond the pale. If that line is being crossed what other lines will be crossed? I would say no lines are really being crossed here that are new. To people that don’t watch this conflict, which hasn’t been “hot” since 2015, nothing that Israel is doing here is very divergent from the sort of back and forth violence we’ve seen between Israel and the Palestinians for ages. It’s just been quiet for awhile so it’s shocking to see it again if you hadn’t paid a ton of attention to previous flare ups. > So: where is this going? Where should it go? How will we get there? And will everyone be happy when we do? This probably is going to another period of violence that will last months, and then it will end. Where should it go is incredibly complicated–I personally no longer believe a two state solution is a realistic option, and advocate for a one state solution in which all citizens of the one state have political equality and civil rights (however most Palestinians and Israelis oppose a one state solution AFAIK), I frankly don’t expect it to get there ever or at least in my life time so I have no idea on the “how”, and it’s unlikely everyone will be happy anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/19 "2021-05-15T18:34:33Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > But launching thousands of rockets directly into civilian cities is okay. That’s just killing Jews, so it doesn’t matter. The journalists were launching rockets and killing Jews? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/20 "2021-05-15T18:37:26Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > The journalists were launching rockets and killing Jews? You have Al Jazeera in that building whipping up terrorists to do exactly that. They just happened to be in the same building with AP reporters and Israel called them up first so they could get out of the building. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168.md?page=2)