# Israel vs Gaza 2021… wtf? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 15, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168 "2021-05-15T16:20:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/381 "2021-05-19T15:00:54Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I’ve read that the current conflict was kicked off by two things: (a) a court case in Israel that is going to evict some Arabs from somewhere Apparently the issue is that the land these Arabs live on was owned and occupied by Jews prior to 1948, when these Jews were ousted and replaced by Arabs. Under Israeli law, the Jews had the right to reclaim the land. What makes it more complicated are that 1) apparently Arabs do not have a comparable right to reclaim land that was seized from them in 1948, and 2) the Arabs have been living there for 70 years. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > some violence near a mosque The Al-Aksa mosque and related areas are in very close proximity to the Western Wall, and at times of religious fervor are sometimes used as the base to attack worshippers. So the police sometimes clamp down on attendance, which sometimes provokes even more violence. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/382 "2021-05-19T15:10:27Z")
Interesting and nuanced analysis on [the David Pakman Show](https://youtu.be/qmNfL1nICsc?t=326). Being Jewish, a lot of people second-guessed what his perspective would be, and the first 5:25 of the video is talking about the hate mail he has received (I don’t know why he bothered with this…he should dedicate as much cognitive power into reading those messages as the people who wrote them did). However, in his actual analysis, he considers the Israeli actions at Al-Aksa to have been the main catalyst for this wave of conflict, and conflict may have been a deliberate ploy to keep Bibi in power. He is no defender of Hamas though, and thinks their removal is a prerequisite to peace. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/383 "2021-05-19T16:22:38Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I mean if Israel wanted to specifically kill Gazans there’d be tens of thousands of them dead. If they wanted to just kill Gazans they could kill half a million people in a week just with conventional weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/384 "2021-05-19T17:27:18Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The bombing of the AP building is clear evidence of Israel just wantonly attacking civilian targets for no apparent reason. No, it’s not clear evidence of that at all. They deemed it a military target and gave warning to civilians it would be struck. Hamas shoots missiles with no idea where they land. Why you think Israel owes you intel information on their targets is on odd position to take given Hamas’s indiscriminate use of missiles. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/385 "2021-05-19T17:40:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Why you think Israel owes you intel information on their targets is on odd position to take given Hamas’s indiscriminate use of missiles. Well, we all agree that Hamas is a terrorist organization because of their indiscriminate use of missiles. I wouldn’t mind seeing evidence that Israel is being much more discriminate than Hamas, if we are supposed to be supporting them. Let’s be clear, Hamas is committing war crimes by using civilians as shields. The civilians being used as shields are _not_ committing war crimes by being used that way. Yet, it is the civilians who are being killed, who are being displaced and made homeless, who are having their lives and all their possessions destroyed. Before I go applauding yet another apartment complex being razed to the ground while it is full of people, I’d like to see that Israel had no other choice, no other option in order to protect itself, and that these actions will actually lead to a cessation of violence. If they don’t care, and don’t mind being seen by the world as no better than Hamas, then they don’t have to justify their destruction of civilian infrastructure and killing of civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/386 "2021-05-19T17:44:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If they don’t care, and don’t mind being seen by the world as no better than Hamas, then they don’t have to justify their destruction of civilian infrastructure and killing of civilians. If they didn’t care they wouldn’t warn civilians ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/387 "2021-05-19T17:52:46Z")
Well, they don’t always warn the civilians ahead of time, so I guess that means that they don’t care. In any case, how much of a warning do you think that you would need before your home was bombed to think that those bombing it cared? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/388 "2021-05-19T17:57:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, they don’t always warn the civilians ahead of time, so I guess that means that they don’t care. Uh huh. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/389 "2021-05-19T17:59:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > In any case, how much of a warning do you think that you would need before your home was bombed to think that those bombing it cared? Any warning would qualify. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/390 "2021-05-19T18:05:24Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But Israel needs to look at this from a big picture perspective and realize that the settlements are preventing a two state solution from ever happening. Perhaps they do. I believe that Israel would end up with a bordering state that acquires an army and weapons, opening the possibility of an invasive attack. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/391 "2021-05-19T18:06:39Z")
I was just following the logic that you laid down. Where did you go wrong? > [@Magiver](#): > > Any warning would qualify. So, you are awakened one night to the sound of a missile crashing into your roof. It doesn’t explode, it is how you are being warned that within the next 10 minutes, a real one will destroy your home. I assume you would have no hard feelings to those who blew up your house, because they “warned” you, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/392 "2021-05-19T19:00:33Z")
Just out of curiosity, does Gaza have the same rates of vaccination against Covid as Israel? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/393 "2021-05-19T19:15:13Z")
Not hardly. > **[Israel may toss millions of vaccines. Why won’t it give them to the PA instead?](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-may-toss-millions-of-vaccines-why-wont-it-give-them-to-the-pa-instead/)** > > With unwanted AstraZeneca doses on the way, and the majority of the Palestinians not vaccinated, there would seem to be a win-win solution. Except it's not that simple > [@](#): > > The Palestinian Authority is struggling to vaccinate its population. As of last week, only 3.6% of Palestinians had received at least one dose, and less than 1% [were fully vaccinated](https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=PSE). ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/394 "2021-05-19T20:50:57Z")
I believe it probably serves the best interests of Israel to see that Palestinians are vaccinated. If they have excess vaccines and make them available, this would show an element of goodwill, keep them safer, undermine an ineffective government and possibly reduce criticism. The arguments against it seem much weaker to me. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/395 "2021-05-19T22:09:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, it’s not clear evidence of that at all. …yes it is. > [@Magiver](#): > > They deemed it a military target Sure they did. But they haven’t proven that it was a military target. > [@Magiver](#): > > and gave warning to civilians it would be struck. The IRA used to give warnings to civilians before they struck as well. > [@Magiver](#): > > Hamas shoots missiles with no idea where they land. Irrelevant. > [@Magiver](#): > > Why you think Israel owes you intel information on their targets is on odd position to take given Hamas’s indiscriminate use of missiles. They don’t owe me jack shit. They do owe the journalists the from AP and Al Jazeera though because they blew the fuck up their equipment and base of operation. They do owe the other residents because they blew the fuck up their offices and homes. They do owe the Palestinian people because they will eventually have to be able to rebuild the infrastructure that has been destroyed. And they do owe the people of Israel. Because if the building really did host military assets belonging to the military intelligence of the Hamas terror organisation then being able to prove the world that this was a legitimate target will do infinitely more to help them win the propaganda war than any amount of memes on Instagram. And when they have finished giving evidence that this was a legitimate target then they could explain why the other 16 media outlets that they targeted (some without warning, some resulting in death) were legitimate targets. > **[Israel bombs additional building housing media office in Gaza; Israeli...](https://cpj.org/2021/05/israel-bombs-additional-building-housing-media-office-in-gaza-israeli-security-forces-assault-palestinian-journalist-in-east-jerusalem/amp/?__twitter_impression=true)** > > New York, May 18, 2021 – Israeli forces must immediately stop bombing the offices of media outlets in Gaza and do their utmost to protect all members of the press, the Committee to Protect Journalists said today. Yesterday, Israeli warplanes bombed... Then they could explain why radio journalist Yusef Abu Hussein’s apartment block was targeted. And why there was no warning. [https://www.businessinsider.com.au/palestinian-journalist-yusef-abu-hussein-dies-israeli-airstrike-in-gaza-2021-5?r=US&IR=T](https://www.businessinsider.com.au/palestinian-journalist-yusef-abu-hussein-dies-israeli-airstrike-in-gaza-2021-5?r=US&IR=T) The more transparency the better. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/396 "2021-05-20T00:52:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I assume you would have no hard feelings to those who blew up your house, because they “warned” you, correct? If I was using my house as a B&B for Hamas I would thrilled to get a warning shot. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/397 "2021-05-20T00:57:03Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > They don’t owe me jack shit. That’s exactly right. They don’t. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/398 "2021-05-20T01:01:46Z")
> [@Drsunflower1](#): > > The Palestinians will talk about the Naqba, the Israelis about the Holocaust. Few are able to look beyond that and construct a narrative that provides a way out. Not just Naqba, but before Naqba (the Aliyah). The Germans should have been punished for the Holocaust, not the Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/399 "2021-05-20T01:02:51Z")
Nope, not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168/400 "2021-05-20T01:04:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s exactly right. They don’t. …but you would agree that they should provide the AP, Al Jazeera, the other occupants of the building, the people of Gaza, all the other media outlets they have bombed in the last few days and the people of Israel evidence of why those places have been targeted? And if not, why not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israel-vs-gaza-2021-wtf/942168.md?page=21)