# Israeli Dopers, What's the Deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373 "2006-07-13T20:10:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/1 "2006-07-13T20:10:58Z")
Launching missiles because of an “act of war”? What’s the press saying? What does public opinion say? What is the intended result? This could go to the Pit, this could go to Great Debates. I have no clue at all after this post. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/2 "2006-07-13T21:45:21Z")
What the hell are you talking about? Are you pitting Israel or Hezbollah? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/3 "2006-07-13T22:21:01Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > What the hell are you talking about? Are you pitting Israel or Hezbollah? He’s pitting neither, this is IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/4 "2006-07-14T02:27:00Z")
IANAI, but… I saw a picture today of a main road near Kiryat Shmona after a rocket launched from southern Lebanon hit it. I’ve been there (Kiryat Shmona) and it seemed (based on the tour we were given, anyway, on a trip financially supported by the national government) a town full of poor civilians trying hard to feed their children. I wouldn’t mind personally peeling off the eyebrows and fingernails of every member of Hezbollah and Hamas and their supporters, though it’d take me a while–not just because of a rocket not quite hitting Kiryat Shmona, but because of decades of cold-blooded attacks on civilians and their children by any number of terrorist organizations ranging from Hamas to Syria (the latter of which is no better than al-Qaida in my book). Not to mention the adults who tell/train children to throw rocks at Israeli soldiers’ heads because nobody will shoot at poor little kids (fucking hypocritical, isn’t it?), and then whine when people get shot. The list goes on and on and on. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/5 "2006-07-14T17:03:49Z")
There are two sides to every question. Still, have you noticed how the most-extremely whacked out people on both sides seem to be the ones setting policy? With good will we could sort this whole thing out in an afternoon. It is the good will that is lacking. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/6 "2006-07-14T17:11:04Z")
It’s not always the case but this time I put all the blame squarely on the backs of Hamas and, now, Hezbollah. Can’t say I blame Isreal one bit for responding in a manner they hope will reduce the likelyhood of repeat offensive incursions in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/7 "2006-07-14T17:21:35Z")
Do you think _this_ will do _that?_ How? The Israelis are doing just what their enemies want them to do. (Not that I have a solution, I’m just sayin’) ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/8 "2006-07-14T17:24:30Z")
Both sides are assholes so I can’t really pick a side here. But hey according to the Google ad here at the bottom of the page “God has a plan”…so ummm…awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/9 "2006-07-14T17:25:03Z")
Ditto what Lieu said. On the surface it may look like the Israelis overreacted, but they’re in a position of being terrorized by a “country” within a country. They reacted in the only way they can to a terrorist group who would be happy to blow them off the face of the planet. It doesn’t matter whether Lebanon agrees with Hezbollah or if they simply lost the grip on their country. It is a real threat to Israel and they are defending themselves. That said, this is (in my opinion) the beginning of a mammoth shitstorm the likes of which we haven’t seen in quite a while. A feeling of real dread has washed over me. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/10 "2006-07-14T17:38:20Z")
Paul in Saudi: > [@](#): > > Still, have you noticed how the most-extremely whacked out people on both sides seem to be the ones setting policy? Really? On the Israeli side, Kahane and any similarly anti-Arab movement has been banned from government involvement by law for the last 20 years. Less radically, the Israeli government repudiated the mainstream-right Netanyahu Likud in favor of the centrist Kadima. How whacked out is that? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/11 "2006-07-14T19:23:28Z")
From the Saudi government… > [@](#): > > “A distinction must be made between legitimate resistance and uncalculated adventures taken by elements inside Lebanon and those behind them without recourse to the legal authorities or consulting and coordinating with Arab nations,” said a statement published on the official news agency SPA. “These elements should bear the responsibility for their irresponsible actions and they alone should end the crisis they have created.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/12 "2006-07-14T20:10:58Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > It is the good will that is lacking. Do you connect that with, and I might misquote you from another thread, “the huge amount of testosterone that is lying around over (t)here” ? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/13 "2006-07-15T00:35:15Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Do you think this will do that? How? > > The Israelis are doing just what their enemies want them to do. (Not that I have a solution, I’m just sayin’) The problem is that Israel’s only two choices are (a) raise hell without apologies or (b) _cease to exist_. Diplomacy clearly does not work and will not work under the current regimes in place on both sides, although I firmly believe it should be continually attempted and worked on unless and until an end to the violence is achieved. Israel can’t sit back and let shit happen, because every Israeli child who dies from a bomb lobbed over the border means the fundamentalist-Islam movement is one step closer to its goal: wiping the great nation of Israel off the map forever. Until Lebanon grows a spine and devotes a sincere effort to ridding itself of violent anti-Israeli organizations\*, its nation will be associated with terror and violence, and Israel will be forced to take whatever military actions are necessary–including invasion and, if it gets to that point, occupation. \*I’m not at all arguing that Lebanon should toss out all Holocaust deniers, anti-Israel folks, etc. Peaceful demonstration and dissent are IMO the core of individual freedom, and removal of same is a travesty wherever and whenever it happens. I’m just sayin’, get rid of the guys who like to toss bombs around. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/14 "2006-07-15T03:01:19Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Do you connect that with, and I might misquote you from another thread, “the huge amount of testosterone that is lying around over (t)here” ? Same thing. Some crazed unmarried, unemployed yahoo fires rockets at Israel, undoing the work of acres of level-headed people. Military people (and others) in Israel advocate responding with bombs on airports, not that it will do much good. The head cases on both sides have a veto over the level-headed people. The violence is on a seemingly-endless feedback loop. That is not a Good Thing. (Maybe this should be moved to GD or The Pit?) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/15 "2006-07-15T03:21:05Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > (Maybe this should be moved to GD or The Pit?) The OP wanted to keep it civil and glean information; to learn. I apologize if I have detracted from that or moved the thread towards the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/16 "2006-07-15T04:19:52Z")
Also in the category of ‘doing what they other guy wants us to do,’ you know all of this silliness serves the Iranians just fine. You notice how the present crisis has chased Iranian nukes off the front page. Those boys are slick! ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/17 "2006-07-15T04:26:25Z")
This entire thing is bad for everyone. Bad for Jews, bad for Arabs, bad for everyone. This is just such a shitty situation. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/18 "2006-07-15T04:29:27Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Also in the category of ‘doing what they other guy wants us to do,’ you know all of this silliness serves the Iranians just fine. You notice how the present crisis has chased Iranian nukes off the front page. > > Those boys are slick! Well, that, Lil’ Kim’s rocket tests, and the terror attacks in India (which I doubt are Iranian in origin). More likely, I think, is that Hezbollah thought Israel was too preoccupied with their Gaza operations to put up a fight to the north. They were wrong. Showing that they can’t be distracted or cowed by even more attacks is more important to Israel than reaching their objectives in Gaza is alone. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/19 "2006-07-15T07:44:07Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The OP wanted to keep it civil and glean information; to learn. > I apologize if I have detracted from that or moved the thread towards the pit. Me too. Sorry, guys. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373/20 "2006-07-15T08:11:50Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Same thing. Some crazed unmarried, unemployed yahoo fires rockets at Israel, undoing the work of acres of level-headed people. Military people (and others) in Israel advocate responding with bombs on airports, not that it will do much good. Reality check: What started out the whole latest round of violence in Lebanon was: At least five different civilian targets inside Israel hit, simultaneously, with rockets **and, at the same time** a (much as I hate to say this) well-planned and well executed cross-border raid, which kidnapped the two soldiers. “Some crazed… yahoo” indeed. No, this was a military operation. By a military force allowed by the Lebanese to fester on their own territory, and granted the right to bear arms against Israel in Lebanon’s name. A few cites for Lebanese complicity with Hizballah: Hizballah controls the South as a Lebanese proxy (from [here](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/14/mideast/index.html)) > [@CNN](#): > > Originally Posted by CNN > **Under the treaty that ended Lebanon’s 15-year civil war in 1990, Hezbollah was allowed to retain its weaponry to fight Israeli troops in southern Lebanon.** It says it won’t disarm until Israeli troops leave the disputed Shebaa Farms region near the Syria border, which the United Nations recognizes as Syrian territory. (bolding mine) Hizballah is [part of Lebanese politics](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/15/mideast/index.html), not an outlaw organization: > [@CNN](#): > > Hezbollah, which enjoys substantial backing from Syria and Iran, is considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel. **The group holds 23 of the 128 seats in Lebanon’s parliament**. (bolding mine) As to the OP: What you may be unaware of is the fact that the latest kidnappings are only the culmination of a year of rockets raining in on Southern Israel from the Gaza Strip – the same Gaza Strip that Israel withdrew from **absolutely and completely** , at the cost of great internal strife, last year. Since then, Hamas have not gone a day without lobbing rockets at Israeli civilians. In June, Hamas finally crossed some invisible line (which for any other nation would have come far sooner), and launched a cross-frontier raid, killing and kidnapping soldiers on a base **inside Israel proper** This operation was carried out by digging a several-kilometer-long tunnel under the frontier (sorry, **Paul** , no hot-headed single group of “yahoos” to blame here, either :rolleyes: ) So then, this completely unprovoked attack on Sovereign Israeli territory across a different and hitherto calm border (where we have been acknowledeged by UN to be sitting on the internationally recognized border and not on a single acre of Lebanese soil), along with shelling of totally civilian targets inside Israel, was **just too fucking much** To recap: 1. Our politicians feel (reasonably IMO) that we need to send a message to our neighbors saying “The big guy has taken too much abuse; we’re coming after you this time AND BOY ARE WE PISSED!” 2. Speaking as a private person – BOY ARE WE PISSED. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-dopers-whats-the-deal/364373.md?page=2)