# Israeli Knesset election 03/17/15 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 17, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965 "2015-02-17T22:59:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/101 "2015-03-18T20:53:18Z")
[WH chides Likud for anti-Arab-Israeli “divisive rhetoric.”](http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Mar-18/291274-white-house-knocks-divisive-rhetoric-against-arabs-in-israeli-election.ashx) Not that this will affect U.S. financial aid to Israel or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/102 "2015-03-18T20:58:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not that this will affect U.S. financial aid to Israel or anything. I’ve long wondered; just what effect would cutting all US aid to Israel have? Israel can well survive and thrive without it. It’s not much of a bargaining chip. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/103 "2015-03-18T21:24:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’ve long wondered; just what effect would cutting all US aid to Israel have? Israel can well survive and thrive without it. It’s not much of a bargaining chip. [insert your own Jews-and-money joke here] ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/104 "2015-03-18T21:40:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’ve long wondered; just what effect would cutting all US aid to Israel have? Israel can well survive and thrive without it. It’s not much of a bargaining chip. It is a token that makes Israel a “client state”. I wish Israel had the political wisdom to reduce/eliminate the aid, buy the weapons instead, and have a much freer hand in deciding which weapons to buy. The financial cost of such a decision, I think, would be offset, partially if not fully, by removing the restrictions US imposes on Israeli arms sales. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/105 "2015-03-18T21:51:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Obama isn’t just great at getting the right elected in America, he’s getting the right elected in Israel too. It appears that Obama’s gift for not getting candidates elected is global in nature. \*As Israelis were voting for their next prime minister Tuesday, American lawmakers were demanding to know if U.S. taxpayer dollars helped fund a campaign to **oust** current Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The U.S. State Department allegedly donated $350,000 in taxpayer funded grants to the OneVoice Movement, a U.S. nonprofit dedicated to a two-state solution for Israel. OneVoice, in turn, donated the funds to its subsidiary in Israel, Victory 15 (V15). Victory 15 is a grassroots movement to unseat Netanyahu. …V15 recruited Jeremy Bird, a former Obama campaign strategist, as one of its consultants for the upcoming election. V15’s office in Israel also neighbors OneVoice. “We were approached by OneVoice to give us a donation and we were so thrilled that successful businessmen want to invest in Israel’s future,” V15 co-founder Itamar Weizman told CBN News in February. “Our whole purpose is to go door by door and to call supporters and to call voters and to pledge people not to vote for Netanyahu,” Weizman said. The State Department has denied any taxpayer money given to OneVoice went to V15. If grants did go toward actively supporting campaign efforts against Netanyahu, that is a direct violation of U.S. law. The representatives behind the Congressional inquiry are Reps. Randy Hultgren, R-Ill., Robert Pittenger, R-N.C., Mike Bost, R-Ill., Susan Brooks, R-Ind., Trent Franks, R-Ariz., Vicky Hartzler, R-Mo., Steve King, R-Iowa, Doug Lamborn, R-Colo., Billy Long, R-Mo., Tom McClintock, R-Calif., Mark Meadows, R-N.C., Bill Posey, R-Fla., Tom Rice, R-S.C., Dennis Ross, R-Fla., Pete Sessions, R-Texas, Marlin Stutzman, R-Ind. Tim Walberg, R-Mich., Jackie Walorski, R-Ind., Ed Whitfield, R-Ky., Joe Wilson, R-S.C.\* > **[State Dept. Investigated over Anti-Netanyahu Campaign](https://cbn.com/news/world/state-dept-investigated-over-anti-netanyahu-campaign)** > > As Israelis vote for their next prime minister today, American lawmakers are investigating whether taxpayer dollars helped fund a campaign to oust current Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/106 "2015-03-18T21:55:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Seems like right-wing voters lying to pollsters is [not confined to Israel](http://www3.nd.edu/~mgrecon/datafiles/articles/opinionpolls.html). I would never tell an exit pollster who I had voted for. It’s none of their business. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/107 "2015-03-18T22:02:18Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I would never tell an exit pollster who I had voted for. It’s none of their business. But would you answer and lie? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/108 "2015-03-18T22:02:47Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > [http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/March/State-Dept-Investigated-over-Anti-Netanyahu-Campaign/](http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/March/State-Dept-Investigated-over-Anti-Netanyahu-Campaign/) Pat Robertson’s “news”, reporting on allegations from some of the dumbest people in Congress? Sorry, but Steve King and his buddies don’t have the brain cells between them to expose themselves to modern science, much less to expose a scandal. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/109 "2015-03-18T22:05:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Seems like right-wing voters lying to pollsters is [not confined to Israel](http://www3.nd.edu/~mgrecon/datafiles/articles/opinionpolls.html). The phrase you are looking for is Tom Bradley Syndrome. I keep hearing that this is a myth, but my “BRADLEY WIN PROJECTED”-headlined copy of the San Francisco Chronicle leads me to believe otherwise. But then, that was in 1982 - everybody knows modern exit polls are always right, and that Bush winning Ohio in 2004 was caused by “those damn Diebold machines” (and, if I heard correctly, never mind that every Diebold machine in use in Ohio did, in fact, have a printed listing of each vote). But what I want to know is, in light of the election, does Palestine exist, or doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/110 "2015-03-18T22:43:14Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > But what I want to know is, in light of the election, does Palestine exist, or doesn’t it? The Palestine that can be described is not the true Palestine. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/111 "2015-03-19T02:06:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, I see nothing [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_List#Ideology_and_support) to suggest UAL denies Israel’s right to exist. Er… BG, we’ve had this conversation before when you rather foolishly suggested the Palestinians ask to become part of an Israeli democracy based on “the Israeli model.” As I pointed out, thanks to the law used to ban the Kach Party any Israeli democracy that is anti-Zionist(refusing to recognize Israel as the Sovereign State of the Jewish People) can be banned. Of course the Arab List isn’t going to adopt language that would get them banned. Beyond do you seriously suspect any self-respecting Arab Israeli has anything but contempt for the idea that Israel is the sovereign state of the Jewish people. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/112 "2015-03-19T02:12:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Palestine that can be described is not the true Palestine. What is your definition of Palestine? The one that existed prior to the British colonialists? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/113 "2015-03-19T02:40:47Z")
Bibi seems to be trying to emulate Putin and as for Putin such plays well to a certain domestic base, well enough to probably maintain power anyway (Bibi successfully forming a coalition is still not a given). He seems to believe that he can alienate a large fraction of American Jews, a large portion of the American government, more so most of the rest of the West, and have that be good for Israel. I highly doubt he is correct. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/114 "2015-03-19T02:47:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er… BG, we’ve had this conversation before when you rather foolishly suggested the Palestinians ask to become part of an Israeli democracy based on “the Israeli model.” > > As I pointed out, thanks to the law used to ban the Kach Party any Israeli democracy that is anti-Zionist(refusing to recognize Israel as the Sovereign State of the Jewish People) can be banned. > > Of course the Arab List isn’t going to adopt language that would get them banned. > > Beyond do you seriously suspect any self-respecting Arab Israeli has anything but contempt for the idea that Israel is the sovereign state of the Jewish people. I questioned whether UAL denies Israel’s right to **exist.** You’re talking about how Israel is conceptually **defined.** Of course UAL would like to challenge the official definition, but that does not mean they are “anti-Zionist” in the sense of wanting to drive the Jews into the sea. And if they can be in the Knesset, why can’t they be in the government? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/115 "2015-03-19T02:51:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What is your definition of Palestine? The one that existed prior to the British colonialists? I equate Palestine with Canaan, i.e, Israel + the Territories. Of course there might someday be a State of Palestine with less territory than that – just as there is now a State of Israel that is not the same thing as the Lord’s People Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/116 "2015-03-19T02:53:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I questioned whether UAL denies Israel’s right to **exist.** You’re talking about how Israel is conceptually **defined.** Of course UAL would like to challenge the official definition, but that does not mean they are “anti-Zionist” in the sense of wanting to drive the Jews into the sea. You don’t have to want to drive the Jews into the sea in order to be anti-Zionist. > [@](#): > > And if they can be in the Knesset, why can’t they be in the government? Because the governments in Israel, whether left or right, are based on Zionism. As in “Israel is the Jewish state” as the basic principle. Any party that rejects this principle does not fit into the government. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/117 "2015-03-19T02:58:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I equate Palestine with Canaan, i.e, Israel + the Territories. Of course there might someday be a State of Palestine with less territory than that – just as there is now a State of Israel that is not the same thing as the Lord’s People Israel. Canaan does not equal “Israel + the Territories”. Google maps of Canaan and compare. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/118 "2015-03-19T03:20:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I questioned whether UAL denies Israel’s right to **exist.** You’re talking about how Israel is conceptually **defined.** Of course UAL would like to challenge the official definition, but that does not mean they are “anti-Zionist” in the sense of wanting to drive the Jews into the sea. > > And if they can be in the Knesset, why can’t they be in the government? BG, do you know what Zionism is? If you oppose the idea of Israel being the Jewish State then you are not a Zionist. They are most certainly not Zionists and find Zionism to be a racist philosophy that should be discarded. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/119 "2015-03-19T03:23:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I equate Palestine with Canaan, i.e, Israel + the Territories. Of course there might someday be a State of Palestine with less territory than that – just as there is now a State of Israel that is not the same thing as the Lord’s People Israel. This is an astonishingly odd definition. Why don’t you include Jordan? Is it because you didn’t know that until the British created “Transjordan” it was considered part of Palestine, because you didn’t want to give ammo to the “Jordan is Palestine” crowd(I assume you know what I’m talking about), or was it something else? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965/120 "2015-03-19T03:27:46Z")
Being a secular state with equal rights for all and a representational government is not _necessarily_ incompatible with being a Jewish _homeland_ (which is IMHO Zionism more accurately than being a Jewish state). The Arab parties have not been part of and will not in any foreseeable future be part of any coalition for two reasons: they have explicitly stated that they would not participate in one if asked until “the occupation” is over; and key other parties would not join a coalition that included elements that called for Israel to not exist as a homeland for Jews (and some smaller parties for more racist reasons). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-knesset-election-03-17-15/712965.md?page=7)