# Israeli PM Quote about American Jews **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 28, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962 "2018-05-28T13:18:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/1 "2018-05-28T13:18:58Z")
We all say stupid stuff. I seem to recall some Israeli prime minister getting caught saying that one cannot be a real Jew without living in Israel. The Google, it does nothing. Anyone out there remembers it better? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/2 "2018-05-28T16:12:15Z")
Yuli Edelstein, Speaker of the Knesset, has said: _“In my eyes, with all due openness and tolerance, I doubt whether a person can be a complete Jew without living in Israel (while still a good and beloved Jew!).”_ ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/3 "2018-05-29T00:42:33Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/4 "2018-05-29T01:09:50Z")
Too bad that living in Israel has not made Mr Edelstein a completely intelligent person. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/5 "2018-05-29T05:06:15Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Too bad that living in Israel has not made Mr Edelstein a completely intelligent person. Yuli Edelstein was a Soviet dissident who spend several years in a Siberian gulag in the 1980s for the crime of teaching Hebrew and seeking to immigrate to Israel. His perspective on the matter is different than yours. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/6 "2018-05-29T05:49:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yuli Edelstein was a Soviet dissident who spend several years in a Siberian gulag in the 1980s for the crime of teaching Hebrew and seeking to immigrate to Israel. His perspective on the matter is different than yours. That’s nice. His point of view on that particular matter is not worth as much as mine is, because mine has the distinct advantage of being true. (In particular, that being Jewish is what makes a person Jewish, not their mailing address or the name of their town.) The pretentious twaddle that a particular piece of land is tied to a particular ethnic or religious group in perpetuity is no better or holier coming from Mr Edelstein’s mouth than from Mr Hitler’s mouth, and Mr Edelstein’s government’s hard push for Lebensraum is not kinder or nobler because the two men spoke different languages. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/7 "2018-05-29T06:06:29Z")
You must be a very observant and proud Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/8 "2018-05-29T08:27:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yuli Edelstein was a Soviet dissident who spend several years in a Siberian gulag in the 1980s for the crime of teaching Hebrew and seeking to immigrate to Israel. His perspective on the matter is different than yours. Sure, sounds like he is not offering a dispassionate and objective opinion on this at all and his idiotic and harmful opinion can be discounted. I don’t doubt that his, no doubt, terrible experiences in Siberia has tainted his ability to think clearly on the matter. You are right to bring that problem to our attention. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/9 "2018-05-29T08:43:12Z")
Aliyah never stopped being one of the key tenets of Zionism. You’re welcome to disagree to MK Edelstein and me, but we’re still entitled to our beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/10 "2018-05-29T08:56:14Z")
But Zionism is not the same as Judaism is it? Mr. Edelstein was speaking of being a complete Jew, not a complete Zionist, correct? It almost seems as if he in conflating Judaism with Zionism. Or implying all Jews should be Zionists to be complete?? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/11 "2018-05-29T09:14:44Z")
There are substantial Jewish sects religiously opposed to Zionism and/or to the state of Israel. Some Haredim, for example. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/12 "2018-05-29T09:25:39Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > There are substantial Jewish sects religiously opposed to Zionism and/or to the state of Israel. Some Haredim, for example. Exactly. So to Mr. Edelstein, is it impossible for those Jews who oppose Zionism to be “complete Jews”? Because IMO, that would be fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/13 "2018-05-29T09:48:47Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > But Zionism is not the same as Judaism is it? Mr. Edelstein was speaking of being a complete Jew, not a complete Zionist, correct? It almost seems as if he in conflating Judaism with Zionism. Or implying all Jews should be Zionists to be complete?? Zionism has always been about the belief that all Jews should live in Israel. How is this news to you? And why is it such a big deal? Edelstein just said that people who disagree with him are wrong (but are still good people). Hardly a bold statement coming from a politician. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/14 "2018-05-29T14:03:27Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Too bad that living in Israel has not made Mr Edelstein a completely intelligent person. > [@DavidwithanR](#): > > The pretentious twaddle that a particular piece of land is tied to a particular ethnic or religious group in perpetuity is no better or holier coming from Mr Edelstein’s mouth than from Mr Hitler’s mouth, and Mr Edelstein’s government’s hard push for Lebensraum is not kinder or nobler because the two men spoke different languages. **Moderator Note** **DavidwithanR** , let’s keep political jabs, especially ones as inflammatory as comparing a Jewish politician to Hitler, out of General Questions. No warning issued, but do not do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/15 "2018-05-29T14:18:08Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Exactly. So to Mr. Edelstein, is it impossible for those Jews who oppose Zionism to be “complete Jews”? Because IMO, that would be fucked up. That’s not what he said. Many ultra-Orthodox in fact live in Israel, while not supporting Zionism; many Zionist supporters do not live in Israel. According to the statement, the first group would be more likely to have a “complete” experience than the second. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/16 "2018-05-29T15:19:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Aliyah never stopped being one of the key tenets of Zionism. You’re welcome to disagree to MK Edelstein and me, but we’re still entitled to our beliefs. Last I heard, while aliyah is seen as good and desirable it was not _required_ in order to be a Jew. That’s what makes the statement stupid. It’s imposing a requirement for membership in a group that doesn’t exist. Also, as already pointed out, not all Jews are Zionists, but they’re still Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/17 "2018-05-29T15:40:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Last I heard, while aliyah is seen as good and desirable it was not _required_ in order to be a Jew. That’s what makes the statement stupid. It’s imposing a requirement for membership in a group that doesn’t exist. > > Also, as already pointed out, not all Jews are Zionists, but they’re still Jews. Again, I think that’s reading too much into the statement. He simply isn’t saying you can’t be a Jew if you don’t live in Israel - in fact, he clearly states the opposite, that you _can_ still be a “good Jew” living elsewhere. Nor is he saying you must be a Zionist (or hold any particular political opinion)–his statement is merely about where you live, not what you believe. I don’t agree with him, but I think the fuss about what he said is unwarranted. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/18 "2018-05-29T15:54:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yuli Edelstein was a Soviet dissident who spend several years in a Siberian gulag in the 1980s for the crime of teaching Hebrew and seeking to immigrate to Israel. His perspective on the matter is different than yours. Two solely factual questions: 1. Does anything in the Torah or widely accepted rabbinical texts require Jews to live in Israel, or even suggest that it is preferable to living elsewhere? 2. Are Jews who did not live in Israel because there wasn’t an Israel from the seventh to mid-20th centuries considered incomplete, in Edelstein’s view? Or would living under Abbasid/Mamluk/Ottoman/whoever rule within the boundaries of historic Israel/Judah suffice? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/19 "2018-05-29T16:04:29Z")
He’s making a distinction between a “complete” Jew and a “good and beloved” Jew. As an American Jew with no intention of making aliyah, I’m not particularly insulted. I can respect that a Zionist in Israel would say, “Johnny Bravo, my good and beloved brethren, will you not complete yourself by coming home?” That’s what aliyah means to Zionists - it’s a homecoming. It’s a fulfillment of a divine promise and an end to the diaspora. Of **course** they want that for me. They’re family. Even if I don’t want it for myself, I’m glad that they’re waiting for me with open arms should I change my mind. I feel similarly about the local Lubavitchers, who would very much like for me to wrap myself in tefillin and eat a whole lot less bacon. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962/20 "2018-05-29T17:03:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Two solely factual questions: > > 1. Does anything in the Torah or widely accepted rabbinical texts require Jews to live in Israel, or even suggest that it is preferable to living elsewhere? Yup, it’s a commonplace. “Next year in Jerusalem!” is how the Passover Seder traditionally ends. > **[L'Shana Haba'ah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Shana_Haba%27ah)** > > L'Shana Haba'ah B'Yerushalayim (Hebrew: לְשָׁנָה הַבָּאָה בִּירוּשָלָיִם), lit. "to a year to come in Jerusalem" but most often rendered "Next year in Jerusalem", is a phrase that is often sung at the end of the Passover Seder and at the end of the Ne'ila service on Yom Kippur. Its use during Passover was first recorded by Isaac Tyrnau in his 15th century CE book cataloging the Minhaggim of various Ashkenazi communities. > L'Shana Haba'ah evokes a common theme in Jewish culture of a desire to retu... What exactly this means of course varies from commentator to commentator, but the notion that Jews gain something from residence in what is now Israel clearly has religious roots that long predate political Zionism. > [@](#): > > 1. Are Jews who did not live in Israel because there wasn’t an Israel from the seventh to mid-20th centuries considered incomplete, in Edelstein’s view? Or would living under Abbasid/Mamluk/Ottoman/whoever rule within the boundaries of historic Israel/Judah suffice? Religious Jews travelled to live in what is now Israel since the exile, for that apparent reason. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israeli-pm-quote-about-american-jews/814962.md?page=2)