# Israelis finally pick a side in Syria: They want Assad to fall **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108 "2013-09-17T23:55:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/1 "2013-09-17T23:55:24Z")
[Story here.](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/17/us-syria-crisis-israel-idUSBRE98G0DR20130917) > [@](#): > > Reuters) - Israel wants to see Syrian President Bashar al-Assad toppled, its ambassador to the United States said on Tuesday, in a shift from its non-committal public stance on its neighbor’s civil war. > > Even Assad’s defeat by al Qaeda-aligned rebels would be preferable to Damascus’s current alliance with Israel’s arch-foe Iran, Ambassador Michael Oren said in an interview with the Jerusalem Post. > > \ > > “We always wanted Bashar Assad to go, we always preferred the bad guys who weren’t backed by Iran to the bad guys who were backed by Iran,” Oren said in the interview, excerpted on Tuesday before its full publication on Friday. > > Assad’s overthrow would also weaken the alliance with Iran and Hezbollah, Oren said. > > “The greatest danger to Israel is by the strategic arc that extends from Tehran, to Damascus to Beirut. And we saw the Assad regime as the keystone in that arc,” he said. > > Oren said that other anti-Assad rebels were less radical than the Islamists. > > Israel believes around one in 10 Syrian rebels are Sunni militants sworn to its destruction. Assad’s Alawite sect is closer to the rival Shi’ite Islam of Iran and Hezbollah. Issues for debate: 1. Will this make any difference in Syria? Nobody there ever before seemed to care much what the Israelis think. OTOH, Israeli support of the rebels might actually embarrass them, and by the same token Assad could use this for propaganda purposes. On the gripping hand, might the Israelis now start sending the rebels material support? 2. Are the Israelis right, that in this case the Devil they don’t know is better than the Devil they do? How much of a threat is Iran (or Hezbollah, for that matter) to Israel anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/2 "2013-09-17T23:58:23Z")
What’s your position? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/3 "2013-09-18T00:08:54Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > What’s your position? I’d rather Assad go the way of Gaddafi, he’s a right bastard, and the Islamists are only one faction of the rebels anyway; but, no matter who wins this war, I deeply fear that [there is no way it can end well](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=641072) (i.e., with no ethnic cleansing, etc.). And as to which outcome would be good or less-bad for the Israelis, I have no position at all. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/4 "2013-09-18T00:28:41Z")
Like we didn’t know that from before. Al Q is the invention of the same strategy that produced Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/5 "2013-09-18T00:38:40Z")
Israel picked their side long ago; this is just the most open acknowledgment to date (they don’t run their mouths like some politicos we know). Peres signaled their readiness for and expectation of a post-Assad Syria last year. And the Israeli military have actually attacked Assad’s forces themselves, at least three times since the civil war began. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/6 "2013-09-18T01:07:49Z")
It seems like Al Q-aligned rebels are probably less of a problem for the Israelis, and more of a problem for USA, and Iran-aligned Assad is probably less of a problem for the USA and more of a problem for the Israelis. There’s ~1000 miles between Tel Aviv and Tehran, so it’s not like they’re going to have a direct conventional war anytime soon. The biggest threat of annihilation (admittedly somewhat remote still) that Israel faces would be from a hypothetical Iranian nuke or two. Israel’s biggest pain point today is probably that Iran supplies Hezbollah with advanced missiles and rockets, which are regularly used to terrorize and maim / kill Israeli civilians (I’m not sure who supplies the Gaza Strip goons with their non-home-made weapons). That’s why they claimed they were attacking Assad’s forces on the few instances that they have so far: to destroy advanced weaponry that was being transferred to Hezbollah. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/7 "2013-09-18T01:10:38Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Like we didn’t know that from before. > > Al Q is the invention of the same strategy that produced Hamas. What strategy is that, and whose? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/8 "2013-09-18T02:30:59Z")
If that’s Israel’s position then it’s like a blessing from Allah that Assad should stay. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/9 "2013-09-18T02:32:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If that’s Israel’s position then it’s like a blessing from Allah that Assad should stay. I doubt the Islamic rebels feel the same way … ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/10 "2013-09-18T02:42:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What strategy is that, and whose? Based on his past statements claiming that Mossad was behind 911 and the vastly more credible claims that Hamas was initially supported by the Israelis as a counter to Fatah, I suspect he’s arguing that Al Quaeda was invented the Jews/the Israelis/the Zionists/or some other dog whistle. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/11 "2013-09-18T02:43:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If that’s Israel’s position then it’s like a blessing from Allah that Assad should stay. Why? Are the Israelis always wrong? I’m always ready to beat the “Fuck Israel!” drum just because I sympathize with the plight of their Palestinian cousins, but I wouldn’t go **that** far. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/12 "2013-09-18T03:13:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m always ready to beat the “Fuck Israel!” drum just because I sympathize with the plight of their Palestinian cousins, but I wouldn’t go **that** far. I wonder if the Palestinians use that description for the Israelis … ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/13 "2013-09-18T03:18:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why? Are the Israelis always wrong? I’m always ready to beat the “Fuck Israel!” drum just because I sympathize with the plight of their Palestinian cousins, but I wouldn’t go **that** far. because of their popularity in Syria. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/14 "2013-09-18T03:19:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I wonder if the Palestinians use that description of the Israelis … Heh. Unless there’s a westerner nearby they don’t even refer to “the Israelis” but “the Jews” which isn’t even meant as a pejorative but just how they honestly see their enemy. Beyond that, had BG ever uttered that claim in the West Bank, unless he was surrounded by armed guards or reporters he’d probably have been murdered by people for daring to suggest they were related to the descendants of apes and pigs. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/15 "2013-09-18T03:22:50Z")
Yup, well then it’s clear that we should throw our full support behind Assad - can’t let those Zionists get their way, after all… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/16 "2013-09-18T04:22:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > because of their popularity in Syria. 😕 Israelis are popular in Syria?! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/17 "2013-09-18T04:25:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I wonder if the Palestinians use that description for the Israelis … The Palestinians might or might not, and the Israelis might or might not, but [it is the truth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people#DNA_and_genetic_studies). Of course, there are no quarrels worse than family quarrels. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/18 "2013-09-18T04:32:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Israelis are popular in Syria?! I think he was being tongue in cheek. He’s saying that nothing will raise Assad’s popularity in Syria more than the Israelis saying he should leave. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/19 "2013-09-18T04:36:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Palestinians might or might not, and the Israelis might or might not, but [it is the truth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people#DNA_and_genetic_studies). Of course, there are no quarrels worse than family quarrels. > [@](#): > > Soon as I could get Buck down by the corn-cribs under the trees by ourselves, I says: > > “Did you want to kill him, Buck?” > > “Well, I bet I did.” > > “What did he do to you?” > > “Him? He never done nothing to me.” > > “Well, then, what did you want to kill him for?” > > “Why, nothing—only it’s on account of the feud.” > > “What’s a feud?” > > “Why, where was you raised? Don’t you know what a feud is?” > > “Never heard of it before—tell me about it.” > > “Well,” says Buck, “a feud is this way: A man has a quarrel with another man, and kills him; then that other man’s brother kills him; then the other brothers, on both sides, goes for one another; then the cousins chip in—and by and by everybody’s killed off, and there ain’t no more feud. But it’s kind of slow, and takes a long time.” > > “Has this one been going on long, Buck?” > > “Well, I should reckon! It started thirty year ago, or som’ers along there. There was trouble 'bout something, and then a lawsuit to settle it; and the suit went agin one of the men, and so he up and shot the man that won the suit—which he would naturally do, of course. Anybody would.” > > “What was the trouble about, Buck?—land?” > > “I reckon maybe—I don’t know.” > > “Well, who done the shooting? Was it a Grangerford or a Shepherdson?” > > “Laws, how do I know? It was so long ago.” > > “Don’t anybody know?” > > “Oh, yes, pa knows, I reckon, and some of the other old people; but they don’t know now what the row was about in the first place.” – Mark Twain, _Huckleberry Finn_ > [@](#): > > First, 'twas the Hatfields. And first, 'twas the McCoys. Or maybe it was the other way about. – Anonymous ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108/20 "2013-09-18T06:08:28Z")
I’ll have to play this scenario out in my [Middle East Political Simulator.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict:_Middle_East_Political_Simulator) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-finally-pick-a-side-in-syria-they-want-assad-to-fall/669108.md?page=2)