# Israelis vs Palestinians-Who are the "good guys"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 28, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257 "2014-07-28T17:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/41 "2014-07-30T21:03:15Z")
For myself, I would not characterize either Israelis or Palestinians “as a people” as either good guys or bad guys. Both are caught in an unfortunate situation that has deep historical roots and is not wholly of their making. The Palestinains have got the worse of the deal, obviously enough. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/42 "2014-07-30T22:11:01Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Apparently, it is not taught in Western schools that nearly exactly the same number of Jews - 700K - were forced out of the other countries in the ME and into Israel. > > Apparently, they are now the “bad guys” for living on “stolen land”. > > It isn’t as if this sort of thing hasn’t happened elsewhere - India and Pakistan springs to mind, as it occurred at exactly the same time - but few claim that India and/or Pakistan are “bad guys” for living on “stolen land”. > > Nor is Poland considered a “bad guy” for having “stolen” German land after WW2 - despite the terrible expulsion of ethnic Germans and movement of the border 100K to the West. > > What is the difference between these scenarios and Israel/Palestine? The fact that the Palestinians who left - either voluntary or forced - are still, nearly 70 years later, “refugees”. Their Arab bretheren, so eager to support their rights, have refused to take them in. I don’t find any of these examples analogous. I don’t have a problem with the Jews who were forcefully removed from their land reclaiming “their” land. I don’t even have a problem with their direct descendants reclaiming their direct ancestor’s land. I DO have a problem with a guy born and raised in New Jersey, who is separated from the land by thousands of years, believing he has more claim to that land than a guy who has never lived anywhere else, nor his father, or _his_ father. That would be like me, a member of the African diaspora, claiming acreage in Nigeria. I can make it my land if I am assertive enough and find enough friends to back me up, and just hope that no one cares enough to argue with me about it. But the people who I’ve displaced are not obligated to respect my claim that the land was my natural inheritance. Hell, with that logic, a mutt like me could claim half the world as her homeland. > [@](#): > > The reasons Israelis do not want to “let in” Palestinians en mass appear pretty obvious: they are, to a large extent, hostile to the state, after nearly 70 years of conflict. Let’s stop with the bullshit rhetoric and be honest. The reason Israel does not want Palestinians to become Israeli citizens is that the goal has always been a JEWISH state. An Arab Muslim majority does not jibe with this dream. Personally, I find this unpalatable because I don’t like the idea of a person being automatically favored over another based on their bloodline or religious belief. But apparently this is the minority view. I’m fine not getting worked up about it and keeping my opinion to myself (most of the time). But I’m also not going to sugarcoat the truth. Israel is not a “we-are-the-world” type of place. They are actively cultivating a citizenry that fits a very narrow profile. If any other place in the world were doing the same thing, we’d all be bothered by it. The Palestinians are not irrational in their rage. This is the kind of bullshit I’m sick of hearing. I would probably want to blow up the country that has displaced me and my family and continues to do so even when it says it wants peace. But just because their rage is completely understandable doesn’t give them license to self-destruct. I understand their sadness and pain and anger much more than I understand the average Israeli’s sadness and pain and anger. But I also know that sadness and pain and anger don’t entitle you to anything in this world. It doesn’t feed anyone. It doesn’t build schools and universities. It doesn’t advance society. It just results in more killing. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting the sadness and pain to go away. Their rage is not irrational, but their actions are. So that’s why they are the “bad guys”. But irrational behavior doesn’t exist in a vaccuum. So Israel is a goddamned bastard too. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/43 "2014-07-30T22:45:03Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The reason Israel does not want Palestinians to become Israeli citizens is that the goal has always been a JEWISH state. An Arab Muslim majority does not jibe with this dream…Personally, I find this unpalatable because I don’t like the idea of a person being automatically favored over another based on their bloodline or religious belief. The reason the modern state of Israel was created is because people were automatically disfavored based on their bloodlines and/or religious beliefs, to the point of millions of them killed for no reason other than being Jewish. Given that Arab Muslims as a whole seem all too ready to continue in that vein, I see finding fault with Israel over being selective about whom they accept as citizens to be rather disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/44 "2014-07-30T22:48:34Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t find any of these examples analogous. > > I don’t have a problem with the Jews who were forcefully removed from their land reclaiming “their” land. I don’t even have a problem with their direct descendants reclaiming their direct ancestor’s land. I DO have a problem with a guy born and raised in New Jersey, who is separated from the land by thousands of years, believing he has more claim to that land than a guy who has never lived anywhere else, nor his father, or _his_ father. So immigrants should have no rights? Blood should be tied to soil? As of NOW, the vast majority of Israelis were BORN there. > [@](#): > > Let’s stop with the bullshit rhetoric and be honest. The reason Israel does not want Palestinians to become Israeli citizens is that the goal has always been a JEWISH state. An Arab Muslim majority does not jibe with this dream. Let’s stop with the bullshit rhetoric and be honest. The reason Israel does not want Palestinians [from the WB or Gaza] being Israeli citizens is that, rightly or wrongly - and it doesn’t matter which - they are PISSED at the currently-existing Israeli citizens, and so would make bad neighbours and bad citizens. Leaving aside whether Israelis “deserve” Hamas, would yoiu want them moving in next door to YOU? I thought not. > [@](#): > > Personally, I find this unpalatable because I don’t like the idea of a person being automatically favored over another based on their bloodline or religious belief. … but above, you just finished telling us all the opposite. Your quote: > [@](#): > > I DO have a problem with a guy born and raised in New Jersey, who is separated from the land by thousands of years, believing he has more claim to that land than a guy who has never lived anywhere else, nor his father, or _his_ father. What’s all this “his father or hsi father” being better than “the guy from New Jersey” stuff, if you "… don’t like the idea of a person being automatically favored over another based on their bloodline "? > [@](#): > > But apparently this is the minority view. I’m fine not getting worked up about it and keeping my opinion to myself (most of the time). But I’m also not going to sugarcoat the truth. Israel is not a “we-are-the-world” type of place. They are actively cultivating a citizenry that fits a very narrow profile. Well, except for the 20% of its citizens who are Arabs. I suppose they “don’t count”. > [@](#): > > If any other place in the world were doing the same thing, we’d all be bothered by it. > > The Palestinians are not irrational in their rage. This is the kind of bullshit I’m sick of hearing. I would probably want to blow up the country that has displaced me and my family and continues to do so even when it says it wants peace. But just because their rage is completely understandable doesn’t give them license to self-destruct. I understand their sadness and pain and anger much more than I understand the average Israeli’s sadness and pain and anger. But I also know that sadness and pain and anger don’t entitle you to anything in this world. It doesn’t feed anyone. It doesn’t build schools and universities. It doesn’t advance society. It just results in more killing. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting the sadness and pain to go away. Their rage is not irrational, but their actions are. So that’s why they are the “bad guys”. > > But irrational behavior doesn’t exist in a vaccuum. So Israel is a goddamned bastard too. > > IMHO. You have just eloquently described WHY the average Israeli would have to have rocks in their head if they allowed these guys into the country as citizens. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/45 "2014-07-30T23:26:12Z")
Might makes right. Palestinians are a victim of European colonialism. Hey, who ain’t? Get in line. They and their friends thought they could kick the Jews out. They were wrong. At some point they have to realize they’ve been totally defeated and get over it, like the Native Americans. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/46 "2014-07-30T23:26:52Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > The reason the modern state of Israel was created is because people were automatically disfavored based on their bloodlines and/or religious beliefs, to the point of millions of them killed for no reason other than being Jewish. Given that Arab Muslims as a whole seem all too ready to continue in that vein, I see finding fault with Israel over being selective about whom they accept as citizens to be rather disingenuous. Honest question. Were they trying to kill Jews before or after the creation of the Israel state? Because it is understanding that Jews and Arab Muslims were doing fine pretty much before all of this “this is MY homeland!” shit started. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/47 "2014-07-30T23:55:49Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Honest question. > > Were they trying to kill Jews before or after the creation of the Israel state? Because it is understanding that Jews and Arab Muslims were doing fine pretty much before all of this “this is MY homeland!” shit started. It certainly goes back before 1948. There was Muslim militant activity against Jews in the Holy Land, notably during WWII. The Mufti of Jerusalem was particularly emphatic in leading this kind of violence. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/48 "2014-07-30T23:59:15Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > So immigrants should have no rights? Blood should be tied to soil? > > As of NOW, the vast majority of Israelis were BORN there. But half of them are of European extraction, correct? Most of them are either second or third generation, true. But it is not true that most of Israelis are recently descended from Palestinian Jews. So when you say that Jews have always lived there, that is very much true. But a large percentage of Israelis do not have roots in the area like the Palestinians do. Are the vast majority of illegal settlers natural born? Honest question. I’m genuinely curious because I don’t know the answer and I’m looking to be informed. > [@](#): > > Let’s stop with the bullshit rhetoric and be honest. The reason Israel does not want Palestinians [from the WB or Gaza] being Israeli citizens is that, rightly or wrongly - and it doesn’t matter which - they are PISSED at the currently-existing Israeli citizens, and so would make bad neighbours and bad citizens. Do you disagree that Israel wants a Jewish state? And that a citizenry comprised of an Arab Muslim majority isn’t consistent with this desire? > [@](#): > > Leaving aside whether Israelis “deserve” Hamas, would yoiu want them moving in next door to YOU? I thought not. Where in the hell did I say Israel deserves Hamas? Please don’t put words in my mouth. No, I don’t want Hamas living next door to me. But then again, I wouldn’t put myself in a situation where Hamas would be living next door to me. And if Hamas just showed up one day and started lobbing rockets at me, I’d have to wonder why. Is it mere jealousy? Rabid racism or nationalism? Or is my government implementing policies that ensures there will always be a crazy neighbor lobbing rockets at me? > [@](#): > > … but above, you just finished telling us all the opposite. > > Your quote: > > What’s all this “his father or hsi father” being better than “the guy from New Jersey” stuff, if you "… don’t like the idea of a person being automatically favored over another based on their bloodline "? I can understand familial inheritance because I’m not an idiot. If someone’s grandfather owned property, it is not hard to argue that his grandchildren are entitled to that property. But there becomes a point when it becomes utter nonsense. My distant West African mDNA does not entitle me to land in Nigeria. The argument that I should get to live there because my great-great-great-grandfather lived there is a straight-up CRAZY argument. However, an argument that simply says, “Well, people fought for that land and they won it fair and square. And they invited me to share it with them.” That’s different. I can respect that. But I can’t respect all the bullshit about whose ancestors lived where. ---
**Author:** ![kjckjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e36b37/32.png) [@kjckjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kjckjc)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/49 "2014-07-31T00:00:02Z")
I find this explanation to work pretty well: [YouTube Link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EDW88CBo-8) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/50 "2014-07-31T00:06:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Honest question. > > Were they trying to kill Jews before or after the creation of the Israel state? > **[1929 Hebron massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre)** > > The Hebron massacre was the killing of sixty-seven or sixty-nine Jews on 24 August 1929 in Hebron, Mandatory Palestine. The event also left scores seriously wounded or maimed. Jewish homes were pillaged and synagogues were ransacked. > The massacre was perpetrated by Arabs incited to violence by rumors that Jews were planning to seize control of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Some of the 435 Jews in Hebron who survived were hidden by local Arab families, although the extent of this phenomenon is... 20 years before the creation of the “Israel state”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/51 "2014-07-31T00:09:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Are the vast majority of illegal settlers natural born? Honest question. I’m genuinely curious because I don’t know the answer and I’m looking to be informed. Asking about “illegal settlers” is poisoning the well. Why don’t you ask it correctly and you may get the answer. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/52 "2014-07-31T00:17:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Asking about “illegal settlers” is poisoning the well. Why don’t you ask it correctly and you may get the answer. There’s no pointing engaging me if we can’t even agree on something as basic as [this](http://972mag.com/why-the-eu-needs-to-rein-in-israels-settlement-policy/94370/). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/53 "2014-07-31T00:19:18Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > There’s no pointing engaging me if we can’t even agree on something as basic as [this](http://972mag.com/why-the-eu-needs-to-rein-in-israels-settlement-policy/94370/). I guess you won’t get an answer then. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/54 "2014-07-31T00:23:29Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > There’s no pointing engaging me if we can’t even agree on something as basic as [this](http://972mag.com/why-the-eu-needs-to-rein-in-israels-settlement-policy/94370/). Your link wasn’t working for me. In case it isn’t for anyone else, here’s what I think you wanted to link to. > **[Why the EU needs to rein in Israel's settlement policy - +972 Magazine](https://www.972mag.com/why-the-eu-needs-to-rein-in-israels-settlement-policy/)** > > An Israeli academic makes the case for Europe to contain Israel’s settlement policy with greater determination and more concrete measures. By Nurit Peled-Elhanan Times are very tough for both Israeli and Palestinian families. The death toll in Gaza... ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257/55 "2014-07-31T13:13:43Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > But half of them are of European extraction, correct? Most of them are either second or third generation, true. But it is not true that most of Israelis are recently descended from Palestinian Jews. So when you say that Jews have always lived there, that is very much true. But a large percentage of Israelis do not have roots in the area like the Palestinians do. Not my point. I mean that most of the individual Israelis living in Israel right now were born there. Are you of the opinion that it is right and proper to make distinctions in citizenship rights between people whose forefathers were immigrants, and those whose forefathers (well, foreparents) were not? > [@](#): > > Are the vast majority of illegal settlers natural born? Honest question. I’m genuinely curious because I don’t know the answer and I’m looking to be informed. I do not know. Wiki simply states as follows: > [@](#): > > In addition to internal migration, in large though declining numbers, the settlements absorb annually about 1000 new immigrants from outside Israel. The difficulty, as you may or may not know, is that certain areas are defined as “illegal settlements” that are, by any ordinary definition, considered “part of the city of Jerusalem”. So someone moving from one neighbourhood to another in their own country’s capital city become defined as an “illegal settler”. > [@](#): > > Do you disagree that Israel wants a Jewish state? And that a citizenry comprised of an Arab Muslim majority isn’t consistent with this desire? No … but that is not why Israelis do not want people from Gaza or the WB to become citizens. If it was, they would be busy denying citizenship to their existing Arab population. The reason is more straightforward: a desire to keep acknowledged enemies out. > [@](#): > > Where in the hell did I say Israel deserves Hamas? Please don’t put words in my mouth. > > No, I don’t want Hamas living next door to me. But then again, I wouldn’t put myself in a situation where Hamas would be living next door to me. And if Hamas just showed up one day and started lobbing rockets at me, I’d have to wonder why. Is it mere jealousy? Rabid racism or nationalism? Or is my government implementing policies that ensures there will always be a crazy neighbor lobbing rockets at me? Do you want to know what motivates Hamas? Don’t ask me, I’m not a Hamas member. Instead, read the Hamas Charter, which spells out very clearly what motivates Hamas. Here is a link: [http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th\_century/hamas.asp](http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp) Hamas on what to do with Jews: > [@](#): > > Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah’s promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: > > “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). Hamas on teaching women: > [@](#): > > The Moslem woman has a role no less important than that of the moslem man in the battle of liberation. She is the maker of men. Her role in guiding and educating the new generations is great. The enemies have realised the importance of her role. They consider that if they are able to direct and bring her up they way they wish, far from Islam, they would have won the battle. That is why you find them giving these attempts constant attention through information campaigns, films, and the school curriculum, using for that purpose their lackeys who are infiltrated through Zionist organizations under various names and shapes, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, espionage groups and others, which are all nothing more than cells of subversion and saboteurs. These organizations have ample resources that enable them to play their role in societies for the purpose of achieving the Zionist targets and to deepen the concepts that would serve the enemy. These organizations operate in the absence of Islam and its estrangement among its people. The Islamic peoples should perform their role in confronting the conspiracies of these saboteurs. The day Islam is in control of guiding the affairs of life, these organizations, hostile to humanity and Islam, will be obliterated. Hamas on peace and negotiations: > [@](#): > > Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. “Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know.” > > Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers? > > “But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah.” (The Cow - verse 120). > There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith: > > “The people of Syria are Allah’s lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation.” These, to remind you, are some of the folks you wish to make citizens of Israel. Do you wonder that Israelis are not keen on that particular idea? > [@](#): > > I can understand familial inheritance because I’m not an idiot. If someone’s grandfather owned property, it is not hard to argue that his grandchildren are entitled to that property. We are not talking about ownership of property, but of citizenship in a nation. If someone’s grandfather lived in a nation, does that give that person superior rights of citizenship to someone whose father was an immigrant? > [@](#): > > But there becomes a point when it becomes utter nonsense. My distant West African mDNA does not entitle me to land in Nigeria. The argument that I should get to live there because my great-great-great-grandfather lived there is a straight-up CRAZY argument. That isn’t the basis of the claim of present-day israelis to live in Israel. It may have motivated some of their ancestors to move there - more (far more) were motivated to move there because of unfortunate events in Europe and the Middle East, events that made living in those places untenable. For example, the most recent-bar-one mass migration to Israel was of African Jews from Etheopia - people who probably only HEARD of the (modern nation) of Israel. They did not move there for reasons of religious ancestry, but because, in their homeland, they faced death. The reason why Israelis justify their existence in Israel is the exact same as the reason why Americans justify their existence in America - that is their country, where they happen to live. The notion that they are a “colonial implantation” is nonsense - as they have no “metropolitan” country to return to. > [@](#): > > However, an argument that simply says, “Well, people fought for that land and they won it fair and square. And they invited me to share it with them.” That’s different. I can respect that. But I can’t respect all the bullshit about whose ancestors lived where. But it is you, and not me, who is making the “someone’s ancestor lived where” argument! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israelis-vs-palestinians-who-are-the-good-guys/694257.md?page=2)