# Israel's prisoner swap with Hamas **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 13, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568 "2011-10-13T20:17:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/61 "2011-10-18T15:05:23Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hey, we’re not the U.S. Every person in an Israeli prison, civil or military, received an open trial with a lawyer and everything. Let me know what you think of this cite - [http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/pal-prisoners.html](http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/pal-prisoners.html) Administrative detainee ( arrest without charge or trial) - 229 Children - 211 [http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/prisoners.html](http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/prisoners.html) > [@Alessan](#): > > Hey, we’re not the U.S. Every person in an Israeli prison, civil or military, received an open trial with a lawyer and everything. You saying it is does not make it so. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/62 "2011-10-18T15:15:54Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > It’s plain and simple - murder 1st degree. Death penalty or life in prison. Why in hell would they release a guy like that?! Because that’s part of the price Hamas demanded for the return of Gilad Shalit. So maybe you better ask that question of Israel’s enemies. Anyway, you implied that Zakout was “forced” to engage in murder because of “conditions” imposed by the Israelis. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, just the idea that you would put this out as an example shows how little you pay attention to what’s really going on. Well what exactly am I missing? > [@](#): > > You and I know that there are hundreds of Palestinians in Israeli jail for nothing. No I don’t know that. Name 3 of them and give me credible information that they are in jail for “nothing.” > [@](#): > > I think you should apologize. For what? You’ve revealed your attitude by implying that people like Zakout are morally blameless for their slaughter of innocent people; that the blame lies with Israel for having the chutzpah to “occupy” places like Tel Aviv. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/63 "2011-10-18T15:31:36Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Let me know what you think of this cite - [http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/pal-prisoners.html](http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/pal-prisoners.html) > Administrative detainee ( arrest without charge or trial) - 229 > Children - 211 > > [http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/prisoners.html](http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/prisoners.html) > > You saying it is does not make it so. Hilarious statistics for “If Americans Knew”. Israel holds a whole 229 people in “administrative detention”. If Americans only Knew! How outraged they would be! Of course, America itself holds 31,000 in administrative detention, Egypt holds 20,000, etc. etc. > **[Administrative detention | United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_detention#United_States)** > > The United States currently uses indefinite detention without trial—known under various names as internment, civil commitment, preventive detention or administrative detention—to hold people who fall within a few narrow categories, including the mentally ill (involuntary commitment) and "sexually violent predators", though the right of habeas corpus still applies, and some determinations regarding mental illness and sexual dangerousness are made by juries. > During World War II, the United States ... Which isn’t to say such mechanisms are good - they are justly accused by human rights groups - just that, in terms of committing this terrible offence, Israel is a piker. A website that is intended to generate outrage among Americans should really choose a different drum to beat. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/64 "2011-10-18T17:07:53Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Hilarious statistics for “If Americans Knew”. > > Israel holds a whole 229 people in “administrative detention”. If Americans only Knew! How outraged they would be! > > Of course, America itself holds 31,000 in administrative detention, Egypt holds 20,000, etc. etc. > > [Administrative detention - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_detention#United_States) > > Which isn’t to say such mechanisms are good - they are justly accused by human rights groups - just that, in terms of committing this terrible offence, Israel is a piker. A website that is intended to generate outrage among Americans should really choose a different drum to beat. Right. As an American, I’m saddened, but not overly so. Harsh circumstances call for harsh processes. That being said, it’s still better than how Hamas deals with “administrative detention”, which is to say, shoot the person in the head with no trial. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/65 "2011-10-18T17:29:44Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Anyway, you implied that Zakout was “forced” to engage in murder because of “conditions” imposed by the Israelis. Even though I addressed how wrong you are top assume or interpret what I wrote you still go ahead with the assumption. Your debating skills are nil and any continued effort is futile. The degree of dishonesty is alarming. While probably you’ll protest, I thought you should know. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/66 "2011-10-18T17:46:26Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Even though I addressed No you didn’t. What you did was to assert that I am missing something. You refuse to say exactly what I am missing. You also assert that hundreds of Palestinian Arabs are being held by Israel for no reason. Yet you refuse to identify any of these people or provide any information at all to support your claims. > [@](#): > > . The degree of dishonesty is alarming. Don’t worry, I’m not alarmed by your debating style. It’s unfortunately typical. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/67 "2011-10-18T17:53:16Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Really? Who, where? That’s terrible. _emphasis added_ > > No-one even mentioned ‘Jews’. Except you and I’ve cautioned you about this tendency before. > > Further, I am sorry to read your apprehension is confined in the manner described, Perhaps today’s liberties are a happy sign. In that spirit I recommend to you reading on [the ‘forced choice’ question](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma). > > Toodle pip. So you do support what happens to the Amils? Why? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/68 "2011-10-18T19:07:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The nagging thought that Israel might, even briefly, hold the moral high ground - that eats away at you, doesn’t it? I would guess that what’s bothering him is [this](http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/prisoners.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/69 "2011-10-18T19:50:06Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > No you didn’t. What you did was to assert that I am missing something. You refuse to say exactly what I am missing. > > You also assert that hundreds of Palestinian Arabs are being held by Israel for no reason. Yet you refuse to identify any of these people or provide any information at all to support your claims. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14370134&postcount=61](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14370134&postcount=61) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14369771&postcount=56](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14369771&postcount=56) Will you STFU now? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/70 "2011-10-18T20:03:19Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Will you STFU now? No, of course not. Why should I? I am asking you to give me 3 names; supporting information; and to spell out what I am supposedly missing. In other words, put up or shut up. Although somehow I expect you will do neither. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/71 "2011-10-18T20:18:40Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14370134&postcount=61](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14370134&postcount=61) > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14369771&postcount=56](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14369771&postcount=56) > > Will you STFU now? Neither of your posts supports your contention that they are “being held for nothing”. Please provide evidence that there are hundreds of Palestinians in Israeli custody who haven’t committed any crimes or admit that you misspoke. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/72 "2011-10-19T00:41:10Z")
I hope the US never does something like this. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/73 "2011-10-19T00:49:57Z")
> [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > I’m one of the 21% that does not support the deal. The Israeli government should never have broken their rule to never negotiate with terrorists. I have a daughter in the IDF, who is now in more danger. Why? Because Hamas knows that kidnapping pays. > > Release of convicted terrorists before they have served their full sentences seems like an easy and tempting way of defusing blackmail situations in which innocent people may lose their lives. But its utility is momentary at best. Prisoner releases only embolden terrorists by giving them the feeling that even if they are caught their punishment will be brief. Worse, by leading terrorists to think such demands are likely to be met, they encourage precisely the kind of terrorist blackmail which they are supposed to diffuse….only the most unrelenting refusal to ever give in to such blackmail can prevent most such situations from arising. --Benjamin Netanyahu > [@Alessan](#): > > How does your daughter feel about it? More importantly, what would you do if that were your daughter? At some point, the terrorists have to be the party you deal with. They have the power. It’s how government works. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/74 "2011-10-19T00:51:22Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > More importantly, what would you do if that were your daughter? > > At some point, the terrorists have to be the party you deal with. They have the power. It’s how government works. Then you should not rest until the government is overthrown/destroyed/whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/75 "2011-10-19T01:03:46Z")
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBarE–GU98&feature=player\_embedded#!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBarE--GU98&feature=player_embedded#!) :smack: ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/76 "2011-10-19T02:15:41Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Then 79% of the Israeli public are idiots. These people have already murdered hundreds of innocent people. How many more will die because Israel is letting them go at the behest of the terrorists? It will not help Palestine either that convicted murderers are released. The released prisoners may then return to their volient ways which is not good for the Palestinian cause. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/77 "2011-10-19T02:30:27Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Will you STFU now? This is not appropriate for Great Debates. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/78 "2011-10-19T02:34:14Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > The released prisoners may then return to their volient ways which is not good for the Palestinian cause. May, hell. I imagine that the Israelis are trying to keep them in sight, however. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/79 "2011-10-19T02:34:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The nagging thought that Israel might, even briefly, hold the moral high ground - that eats away at you, doesn’t it? It is awful that murderers were released as part of the deal. If it were only political prisoners that were released then both sides would appear reasonable. As it is, it brings down the moral standing of both the Palestinians and the Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/80 "2011-10-19T03:16:02Z")
If I’m ever kidnapped by Islamic extremists or even Tony Two Toes and his mob, I want to go on record right now as saying please don’t make exchanges for me, no matter how much I may plead at the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568.md?page=5)