# Israel's prisoner swap with Hamas **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 13, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568 "2011-10-13T20:17:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/81 "2011-10-19T03:25:54Z")
Even my son’s first grade class made a card that said “WELCOME HOME”. In the ever-critical-of-Israel-SDMB, I’m still a little surprised what should be a celebration (however nuanced) is becoming another ‘bash Israel’ thread. Baruch HaShem, _the kid is actually home_. It was a month or so ago most of us doubted he was alive. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/82 "2011-10-19T04:01:27Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > It is awful that murderers were released as part of the deal. If it were only political prisoners that were released then both sides would appear reasonable. As it is, it brings down the moral standing of both the Palestinians and the Israelis. Does Israel have any “political prisoners”? I don’t see why people are so shocked that the Palestinians being released have committed murder and acts that most consider terrorism. What do people think one has to do to get a lengthy prison sentence in Israel. The answer is quite a bit more than simply throwing rocks at soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/83 "2011-10-19T04:07:18Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > In the ever-critical-of-Israel-SDMB, I’m still a little surprised what should be a celebration (however nuanced) is becoming another ‘bash Israel’ thread. Israel is releasing _at least_ 10 mass murderers, letting them rejoin their colleagues where they are likely to return to their previous profession of murdering innocent people. You don’t have to hate Israel to think that’s too high a price to rescue one man. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/84 "2011-10-19T04:11:21Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Even my son’s first grade class made a card that said “WELCOME HOME”. In the ever-critical-of-Israel-SDMB, I’m still a little surprised what should be a celebration (however nuanced) is becoming another ‘bash Israel’ thread. > > Baruch HaShem, _the kid is actually home_. It was a month or so ago most of us doubted he was alive. No offense, but why should the SDMB be happy that several hundred murderers are now loose on the street of Palestine (or, more likely, drunk off their asses at local Hamas block parties)? I’m glad that this 19 year old innocent kid is alive, but to expect some sort of pat on the back for getting him back (at a terrible cost) is mystifying. If anything, you should be embarrassed. Embarrassed that Hamas played you like a fiddle, embarrassed that they kept him in plain sight for 5 years, embarrassed that you just made a mockery of your justice system that you should be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/85 "2011-10-19T08:20:31Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > More importantly, what would you do if that were your daughter? > > At some point, the terrorists have to be the party you deal with. They have the power. It’s how government works. It would be easy for me to say that we should never negotiate with terrorists, even if, God forbid, it were my daughter. That’s not to say I have not thought about it a great deal. Obviously, any person in a green uniform here is a target. I worry every time she walks out the door wearing her uniform. I know what my ideals are. Would I be able to stick to them if this situation ever occurred? Honestly, I don’t know. I’m not sure anyone would know. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/86 "2011-10-19T09:30:32Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > …Now, some have suggested you’re only motivated by hatred of “the natives” but I think they’re being unfair… The facts asserted here: - You are in a discussion - the discussion involves 2 or more other parties - who have made the suggestion regarding motivation - you have a contrary view under construction. Each such fact is a fabrication on your part. Not well regard, such conduct around here. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/87 "2011-10-19T09:41:58Z")
I’m going to cut and paste my response to a poll regarding this topic going on in another thread – you can find the post [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14373116&postcount=4). The Poll Question there is – the Shalit deal, accept or reject? My follow up response there, to more specific questions regarding **why** I support the deal, pretty much summing up my view on the whole subject, is: > [@Would you have accepted the Shalit prisoner exchange deal if you had been Israeli?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-have-accepted-the-shalit-prisoner-exchange-deal-if-you-had-been-israeli/600124/4): > > In the end, it boils down to an unspoken “All for one and one for all” Israeli _aethos_ – the same reason that people will follow the story of any Israeli who gets lost in some jungle in the farthest corner of the world, and people here will donate their time and money to go looking for him/her. I can’t really explain, it’s something in the Cultural Genome 🙂 > > And of course, the misgivings and downsides don’t really need explaining – it motivates Hamas and other groups to try and kidnap more Israelis; it strengthens Hamas and by proxy other violence-backing groups against the relatively moderate Fatah; it motivates individuals to commit acts of terrorism knowing or at least hoping that they will be released in the next deal… And last but not least it **is** a breach of a promise we make to the families of previous victims that we will catch and punish the perpetrators. > > And still, the blood of one living person really is redder than that of all those who have died. And while the silly grin on the faces of everyone yesterday, from the man on street up to the most hard-boiled newscasters, may in fact be a sign of a nation gone mad, it’s still a Beautiful Madness IMO. > > Or, to put it differently, there comes a time when you just **have** to do something in order to be able to live with yourself. Even if you **know** you’ll pay the price later. And when all is said and done, yesterday I was _proud_ of my country, and proud to be an Israeli. I’ll add that, like **Shinna** , my view is colored by the fact that I have a daughter in the army right now, and another boy and girl who will be there in a few short years. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/88 "2011-10-19T11:24:09Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Does Israel have any “political prisoners”? > > … Good question. I wonder what proportion of the 1027 prisoners were political prisoners and how many were murderers? How many were children? After a quick search, I found this from the[UN General Assembly](http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/gapal1185.doc.htm): “Addressing his remarks to the history, scope and conditions of imprisonment in Israeli prisons and detention centres, human rights lawyer Roberto Garreton, member of the United Nations Working Group on Arbitrary Detentions, said detainees accused of affecting the security of the Israel Defence Force or of Israelis in general were a presumed security risk, when in fact they were only protesting, assembling, demonstrating, writing, thinking or praying. “Is that a crime?” What happened to the exercise of the rights and freedom of assembly, association, thought and opinion? he asked.” Whatever the case I hope this deal helps the peace process. It should improve relations between Hamas, Fatah and Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/89 "2011-10-19T12:46:44Z")
I doubt that any of the 1027 were political prisoners. Keep in mind that the UN has an extreme anti-Israel bias. Believe it or not, the UN Human Rights Council condmens Israel more than all other countries combined. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/90 "2011-10-19T13:01:28Z")
I am not coming down on either side here–I can see both angles and want to avoid fights!–but a question that occurred to me this morning: If the Israeli soldier had committed suicide rather than be released as part of this deal, would he be a hero or a fool? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/91 "2011-10-19T13:07:40Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I am not coming down on either side here–I can see both angles and want to avoid fights!–but a question that occurred to me this morning: > > If the Israeli soldier had committed suicide rather than be released as part of this deal, would he be a hero or a fool? Both, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/92 "2011-10-19T14:40:12Z")
P.S. I would be fascinated to learn the names and supporting information of some of these Arabs who have supposedly been imprisoned merely for thinking or praying. Or for “nothing” Imprisoned by Israel, I mean. I do not need proof that this type of conduct happens regularly in parts of the Arab world. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/93 "2011-10-19T14:48:26Z")
It would be interesting to what for what crimes the traded prisoners are guilty of. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/94 "2011-10-19T16:23:58Z")
I know some are kind of infamous, like Ahlam Tamimi, who planned the Sbarro suicide bombing, and Amna Muna, who basically lured a 16 year old to his death. I’ve found some more names: Nael Barghuti: Guinness Book of Worlds Records holder for longest political prisoner. Arrested in 1978 for killing an Israeli soldier Yehia al-Sinwar: Co-founder of Hamas’s Al Majd security services. Was serving 4 life sentences, one of them for the 1994 kidnap and murder of Israeli soldier Nashon Wachsman. His brother is suspected of being behind the Schalit kidnapping Rawhi al-Mushtaha: Co-founder (with al-Sinwar) of Al Majd Jihad Yaghmur: Hamas official, convicted in the Wachsman murder Mohammed al-Sharataha: Headed a cell that kidnapped and killed two soldiers in 1989 Walid Anjas: Was involved in the 2002 attack on the Moment Cafe Nasr Yateyma: Helped plan the 2002 Passover bombing Chris al-Bandak: Only Christian on the list. Convicted of shooting attacks that killed 2 Israelis and wounded 1. Abdul Aziz Salha: One of the men who lynched those two soldiers who accidentally drove into Ramallah. Got famous because of that picture of his where he was holding up his bloody hands, Musab Hashlemon: Planned the 2004 Beersheba bus bombings. This guy has some experience. He was involved in a prior prisoner exchange Ibrahim Jundiya: Planned the 2002 Jerusalem bus bombing. Fadi Muhammad al-Jabaa: Planned the 2003 Haifa bus bombing, Maedh Abu Sharakh: Planned the 2003 Haifa bus bombing. Hisham Ibrahim Hijaz: Set up a cell that attacked a settlement and killed 2 people. Amir Jabar Sharif Sawalma: Carried out a shooting attack at an IDF checkpoint, also organized suicide bombings at army checkpoints Ahmed Mustafa al-Najar: Lookout in an attack against Israelis. Jabril Ismail: Hid a bomb in a radio, which he put in an apartment building, killing the landlord when he picked it up. Also plotted a suicide bombing at a gas station. Ismail Musa Bahit: Killed 10 Palestinians he suspected of collaborating with Israel. Anyway, there are some of the names; probably some of the more notorious ones. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/95 "2011-10-19T17:42:29Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Abdul Aziz Salha: One of the men who lynched those two soldiers who accidentally drove into Ramallah. Got famous because of that picture of his where he was holding up his bloody hands, [Abdul Aziz Salha](http://www.debbieschlussel.com/43423/disgusting-israel-to-release-palestinian-who-ripped-israeli-soldier-apart/) Human beings do such things to each other. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/96 "2011-10-19T18:09:27Z")
Right, that’s him. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/97 "2011-10-19T18:56:49Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Nael Barghuti: Guinness Book of Worlds Records holder for longest political prisoner. Arrested in 1978 for killing an Israeli soldier How exactly do you define the phrase “political prisoner”? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/98 "2011-10-19T19:04:15Z")
It costs a lot of money to house 1000 prisoners. If they can buy good will with the release and perhaps get some peace talks, it will be a big win. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/99 "2011-10-19T19:09:07Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > it costs a lot of money to house 1000 prisoners. If they **can buy good will with the release** and perhaps get some peace talks, it will be a big win. rotflmao. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568/100 "2011-10-19T19:32:03Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > How exactly do you define the phrase “political prisoner”? By stealing the term from the Guinness Book of World Records, which says: > [@](#): > > On 1 May 2009, Nael Barghouthi, a Palestinian national sentenced to life imprisonment, became the longest serving political prisoner ever. He began his time in prison on April 4, 1978 and has now served more than thirty-two years in an Israeli jail. The previous record was held by Said Alatabah, also a Palestinian, who was incarcerated in Israel for 31 years and 26 days. He was released August 2008. I don’t know how they define it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-prisoner-swap-with-hamas/599568.md?page=6)