# Israel's tacticial situation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 16, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758 "2006-07-16T16:59:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/41 "2006-07-18T03:46:37Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] Actually I didn’t address that since it has been covered in other threads and is not the subject of this one. And i wouldn’t use my associations as an accurate measure of American public opinion anyway; if it was Bush would’ve lost in a landslide. So you believe that the Jihadists planned on Israel reacting in this way as a means of garnering support? [/QUOTE] Thats right. I heard this academic, and another from Macquarie Uni, saying the same thing on the radio last night. > [@](#): > > The situation that Israel has generated by its overreaction will leave both Israel and the US vulnerable to wider accusations of a Jewish-Christian conspiracy against Islam, and an upsurge in secular and religious radicalism among Arabs and Muslims. > > This can only assist al-Qaeda and its supporters, and may well illustrate once again the immaturity of the Israeli leadership, and the naivety of the US in handling the Middle East conflict. [Israel and the US fall into another trap of their own making - Amin Saikal is professor of political science and the director of the Centre for Arab and Islamic Studies (the Middle East and Central Asia) at the ANU](http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/israel-and-the-us-fall-into-another-trap-of-their-own-making/2006/07/16/1152988409067.html) ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/42 "2006-07-19T07:58:32Z")
And this [Boston Globe](http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2006/07/13/irans_trap_for_israel/) editorial suggests that Iran has set a trap for Israel (note that date is 13 July 2006), the purpose being to distract from Irans nuclear ambitions and to turn attention towards Israel being the source of threat in the region. Looks like since the article was written that, by attacking Lebanon, Israel has fallen into this trap. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/43 "2006-07-19T08:45:31Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] I lost the last shred of hope I had for the Palestinians when I watched them destroy all those valuable greenhouses Israel left behind as a parting gift to help kick-start the Palestinian economy. Greenhouses that were purchased from Israeli settlers mostly by American philanthropists hoping to help the Palestinians get on their feet. Their hatred of Israel was greater than their desire to build their own economy. As long as that attitude lasts, there can be no peace. [/QUOTE] Your characterization of this event appears to be distorted. [MSNBC](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9331863/) says that the greenhouses were stripped by looters and implies that inadequate security was to blame. The greenhouses were not dismantled as part of an anti-Israeli demonstration or riot. Blame greed, blame weak governance and the absense of the rule of law: hatred doesn’t appear to be the issue. That said, it was an appalling act. US philanthropists put up $14 million; $500,000 was donated by James Wolfensohn, former World Bank President. Full disclosure: my entire knowledge of this comes from this single article. As always, factual corrections are welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/44 "2006-07-19T14:08:03Z")
[QUOTE=antechinus] And this [Boston Globe](http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2006/07/13/irans_trap_for_israel/) editorial suggests that Iran has set a trap for Israel (note that date is 13 July 2006), the purpose being to distract from Irans nuclear ambitions and to turn attention towards Israel being the source of threat in the region. Looks like since the article was written that, by attacking Lebanon, Israel has fallen into this trap. [/QUOTE] Yeah well, I’m not sure the ‘trap’ worked all that well then. If anything this whole issue has awakened the Arab world to the threat posed by the Iranians to them. One of the remarkable things about these events is that many Arabs have been lining up on Israel’s side. The Saudi and Egyptian governments, while calling the Israeli actions disproportionate, both laid the blame on Hezbollah. The Arab News wrote an editorial slamming Hezbollah and calling for its dismantling. [This editorial](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0607190149jul19,1,7273183.story?coll=chi-opinionfront-hed) by an Arab in the Chicago Tribune is very interesting. If anything this whole episode has increased the world’s awareness of the problems Iran is causing. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/45 "2006-07-20T04:50:42Z")
Crazy. Some non-Leb Sunnis finds it useful that Shias are getting wacked, and this constitutes an awareness by Arabs about what Iran’s been doing? I believe they pretty much knew all along, first, and second, well, forget it, there is no second. First, a comment from the journal of a person who has shown herself to be extremely anti-Hizbullah, but is, after all, Lebanese in the end: > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **[cedarseed](http://cedarseed.livejournal.com/)** > > Overview of today’s news. This war is NOT against HA anymore but against all of us, or at the very least, the Israeli government’s claims to have nothing against the Lebanese population are utter bull. > > • The Israeli attacks were mostly targeted yesterday at trucks believed by Israel to transport weapons and ammunitions to Hizbollah (This is no longer Intelligence, but paranoia! The truck hit in Abdul Wahab was carryign water pumps!). Raids also targeted several posiitons of the Lebanese army, killing 11 and wounding dozens (Why the hell are they targeting the army if they don’t mean to declare war on Lebanon as a whole? Don’t tell me because the army radars were used to shoot at the Israeli battleship – when a battleship is in another country’s waters and firing at it, it had better expect to be shot at by that country’s army. Or does Israel have sole rights to legitimate defense??) > > • The UAE sent a convoy of ambulances that was immediately targeted by Israeli raids. (AMBULANCES FOR CHRIST’S SAKE) The whole thing long since got to the point where it defies reason. And [Reason](http://www.reason.com/links/links071806.shtml): > [@](#): > > More puzzling is a navy ship’s attack on an army installation in the northern town of Batroun, which killed one soldier. I have been by that base many times, and it appears to contain little more than a dozen personnel carriers and a dozen more sleepy soldiers. Perhaps there’s more to that base than I’ve seen (Israel claims to have destroyed a radar station), but given the geography of the area I suspect not. (Disclosure: My wife and daughters were staying at a nearby beach resort during that attack but were unharmed.) With every day and every bomb, Israel loses more and more people who would have been sympathetic had they actually directed their anger at Hizbullah, instead of all over the place. (BTW, see the tail end of the Reason article for a speculation that, interestingly enough, dovetails with that editorial you cited.) ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/46 "2006-07-20T04:56:09Z")
Further aside, the journal commentator, **cedarseed** , is making the same mistake that a lot of other people are making when looking at this: that Israel is targetting, and only means to target, Hizbullah. This is wrong. See the Ha’aretz article I cited in my first post above. They said they were going to war against the nation of Lebanon, and that’s what they’ve been doing. It makes no sense given that as far as I know, the Lebanese army itself still hasn’t fired a shot, but there you have it. It’s what has so many of us shaking our heads in wonder. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/47 "2006-07-20T05:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=pantom] With every day and every bomb, Israel loses more and more people who would have been sympathetic had they actually directed their anger at Hizbullah, instead of all over the place. (BTW, see the tail end of the Reason article for a speculation that, interestingly enough, dovetails with that editorial you cited.) [/QUOTE] Riiiiight. Israel lost the sympathy of those fair minded folks who fully supported them when they went after Hamas in Gaza and… oh… wait… Yeah, I’m sure that if Israel invaded and occupied and fought a house-to-house war in south Lebanon that all the people would cheer Israel on. Certainly we wouldn’t hear the same old same old claims. Nawwwww. [QUOTE=pantom] Further aside, the journal commentator, cedarseed, is making the same mistake that a lot of other people are making when looking at this: that Israel is targetting, and only means to target, Hizbullah. This is wrong. [/quote] You mean that they’re targeting the terrorists… and their state sponsor? Wow… that’s like, crazy. Why on earth would they find the people who help supply weapons to Hezbollah at all responsible for Hezbollah having weapons? It makes no sense. Crazy Israelis. [QUOTE=pantom] They said they were going to war against the nation of Lebanon, and that’s what they’ve been doing. It makes no sense given that as far as I know, the Lebanese army itself still hasn’t fired a shot, but there you have it [/quote] What part of the word “proxy” confuses you? [QUOTE=pantom] It’s what has so many of us shaking our heads in wonder. [/quote] Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/48 "2006-07-20T05:40:02Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] You mean that they’re targeting the terrorists… and their state sponsor? Wow… that’s like, crazy. Why on earth would they find the people who help supply weapons to Hezbollah at all responsible for Hezbollah having weapons? It makes no sense. Crazy Israelis. [/QUOTE] Many news sources are reporting that the Israeli strikes are strategical and precise. Based on reports from people in Lebanon, this is not the case - many attacks are against civilians, whether intentional or not. So far, in Lebanon 300 people have been killed, 1,000 have been wounded and a half-million displaced. As for the Lebanese supplying weapons to Hezbollah, you may have missed the news that before the war there were large anti-Syrian protests in Lebanon. And the government is anti-Syrian. Maybe this anti-Syrian sentiment will begin to wane now. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/49 "2006-07-20T05:41:10Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] You mean that they’re targeting the terrorists… and their state sponsor? Wow… that’s like, crazy. Why on earth would they find the people who help supply weapons to Hezbollah at all responsible for Hezbollah having weapons? It makes no sense. Crazy Israelis. [/quote] They aren’t; they are attacking everybody _else_. They aren’t crazy; just terrorists and fools. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/50 "2006-07-20T07:28:20Z")
[QUOTE=antechinus] Many news sources are reporting that the Israeli strikes are strategical and precise. Based on reports from people in Lebanon, this is not the case - many attacks are against civilians, whether intentional or not. So far, in Lebanon 300 people have been killed, 1,000 have been wounded and a half-million displaced. As for the Lebanese supplying weapons to Hezbollah, you may have missed the news that before the war there were large anti-Syrian protests in Lebanon. And the government is anti-Syrian. Maybe this anti-Syrian sentiment will begin to wane now. [/QUOTE] Civilians are being killed in Lebanon because Hezbollah has insinuated itself into the civilian population and is using them as a shield. This is a standard tactic terrorist organizations use all the time - attack, and then force the counter-attack to go through civilians so that world opinion turns against the people who are defending themselves. In the meantime, Hezbollah is loading its rockets with BB-shot and other shrapnel to maximize civilian casualties. But somehow, that doesn’t get the anti-Israel crowd’s hands wringing about the injustice of war. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/51 "2006-07-20T09:05:44Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] In the meantime, Hezbollah is loading its rockets with BB-shot and other shrapnel to maximize civilian casualties. But somehow, that doesn’t get the anti-Israel crowd’s hands wringing about the injustice of war. [/QUOTE] Because so many Lebanese are dying, and so few Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/52 "2006-07-20T09:47:19Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Civilians are being killed in Lebanon because Hezbollah has insinuated itself into the civilian population and is using them as a shield. This is a standard tactic terrorist organizations use all the time - attack, and then force the counter-attack to go through civilians so that world opinion turns against the people who are defending themselves. In the meantime, Hezbollah is loading its rockets with BB-shot and other shrapnel to maximize civilian casualties. But somehow, that doesn’t get the anti-Israel crowd’s hands wringing about the injustice of war. [/QUOTE] So many Lebonese civilians are being killed because Israel is trying to inflict maximum damage in the 2 week window that it will have before the UN acts. It is using a massive amount of ordinance, DISPROPORTIONATE to that used by Hezbollah. Of course Hezbollah is trying to cause maximum damage with its missiles, they are evil thugs just like Israel, though limited to more primitive means to cause damage. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/53 "2006-07-20T10:54:29Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > They aren’t; they are attacking everybody else. They aren’t crazy; just terrorists and fools. Care to make anything else up out of whole cloth? Or you got a cite, finally? Didn’t think so. > [@antechinus](#): > > So many Lebonese civilians are being killed because Israel is trying to inflict maximum damage in the 2 week window that it will have before the UN acts. It is using a massive amount of ordinance, DISPROPORTIONATE to that used by Hezbollah. Oh, this is high absurdity we’re into now. You’re honestly suggesting that when one country declares war on another by an overt act of naked aggression, that the country which has been attacked has to make sure to use no more pounds of explosives than they’re attacked with? Heavens forbid that they’re better at defending themselves than at being attacked, eh? :dubious: What is this, the Kindergarten Rule of War? [QUOTE=antechinus] Many news sources are reporting that the Israeli strikes are strategical and precise. Based on reports from people in Lebanon, this is not the case - many attacks are against civilians, whether intentional or not. [/quote] Cite? [QUOTE=antechinus] So far, in Lebanon 300 people have been killed, 1,000 have been wounded and a half-million displaced. [/quote] 300 deaths in a war against a nation hardly sounds like civilian targeted attacks. How many apartment complexes would Israel have to hit in order to get the body count into the thousands if that’s what they were really aiming at? [QUOTE=antechinus] As for the Lebanese supplying weapons to Hezbollah, you may have missed the news that before the war there were large anti-Syrian protests in Lebanon. [/quote] Non sequitor. The Lebanese government attacked Israel via a proxy force whether or not there were large Anti-Syrian protests. In addition, Hezbollah != Syria. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/54 "2006-07-20T11:29:46Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] > [@Sam Stone](#): > > In the meantime, Hezbollah is loading its rockets with BB-shot and other shrapnel to maximize civilian casualties. But somehow, that doesn’t get the anti-Israel crowd’s hands wringing about the injustice of war. Because so many Lebanese are dying, and so few Israelis. [/QUOTE] This, by the way, perfectly sums up the massive intellectual dishonesty of many Anti-Israel folks. One side is not only targeting civilians, but trying to -maximize- civilian casualties. But that’s gleefully ignored because they’re not as good at murdering Israelis as the Israelis are at defending themselves. Makes perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/55 "2006-07-20T13:38:08Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] 300 deaths in a war against a nation hardly sounds like civilian targeted attacks. How many apartment complexes would Israel have to hit in order to get the body count into the thousands if that’s what they were really aiming at? [/QUOTE] Who says they are \*trying \*to kill innocent people? Israel is still killing 50 civilians per day. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/56 "2006-07-20T13:48:08Z")
[QUOTE=antechinus] Who says they are \*trying \*to kill innocent people? [/quote] How many of our der trihs’s claims shall I cite? Should I limit it to his claims, or others on the dope/web/media-sphere? [QUOTE=antechinus] Israel is still killing 50 civilians per day. [/QUOTE] Civilians die in war. Lebanon started the war. Hezbollah makes its bases in civilian areas. The fault for those deaths is Lebanon’s and Hezbollah’s. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/57 "2006-07-20T15:09:31Z")
> [@](#): > > **Sam Stone:** > Civilians are being killed in Lebanon because Hezbollah has insinuated itself into the civilian population and is using them as a shield. This is a standard tactic terrorist organizations use all the time - attack, and then force the counter-attack to go through civilians so that world opinion turns against the people who are defending themselves. > In the meantime, Hezbollah is loading its rockets with BB-shot and other shrapnel to maximize civilian casualties. But somehow, that doesn’t get the anti-Israel crowd’s hands wringing about the injustice of war. > [@](#): > > \*\*[cedarseed](http://cedarseed.livejournal.com/346658.html) \*\*: > My grandmother’s neighbour died yesterday when the trucks were bombed in Achrafieh. > She died of fright when the explosion rocked her home. > All this for water pumps. Because the IDF would rather destroy another country’s civilian lives than look before they strike. Even when they know FULL WELL that Achrafieh is a no-HA zone (don’t tell me they wouldn’t know. They can count the lice on Nasrallah’s head.) Lebanese lives are worth as much as Israeli lives. Simple proposition. Saving them from deaths like these is also real real easy, if you’re actually interested in going after your enemy rather than engage in collective punishment of a peaceful people. I’m out of here. No way am I debating depraved shit like this, since that would imply that there’s an actual legitimate second side to this. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/58 "2006-07-20T15:33:38Z")
Bye **Pantom**. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/59 "2006-07-20T15:33:44Z")
[QUOTE=pantom] Lebanese lives are worth as much as Israeli lives. [/quote] Yes, that’s why Lebanon should not have launched a war against Israel. That’s also why Israel deserves to defend itself. Or are Israeli lives worth less than Lebanese? :rolleyes: [QUOTE=pantom] Saving them from deaths like these is also real real easy, if you’re actually interested in going after your enemy rather than engage in collective punishment of a peaceful people. [/quote] When a country commits an act of war against you, that entire country is at war with you. Not just areas which support the war. Lebanon started a war. As a result, their civilians are dying. It is quite odd that all the anti-Israel folks seem to be wilfully ignorant of the fact that war always involves civilian casualties, that Lebanon is the aggressor, and that responding to an act of war commited by a sovereign state is hardly ‘collective punishment’. Or if America were to invade Canada tomorrow, would the only valid targets for retaliation be red states? :dubious: You are, however, right that it’d be real easy for them to have been saved from this. Lebaon could’ve refrained from supplying Hezbollah with weapons. In any case, as events have shown again, and again, and again, your position is bankrupt in every sense of the word. If Israel invaded and occupied southern Lebanon and started house-to-house fighting, we’d be hearing the exact same claims. Over-reaction, collective punishment, terrorism, Israel has to let them kill as many Israeli civilians as Lebanese who get caught in the crossfire or it’s just sooooo unfair, yadda, yadda, yadda. Or do you honestly contend that the reaction would be any different, at all, from what just happened with Gaza? That’s where the missiles were coming from, and where Hamas was in force, and yet we still heard the exact same rhetoric. You want us to believe that when Israel bombed power facilities in south Lebanon and occupied the area, leftists all over the world would praise Israel for its restraint? There’s a bridge in Brooklyn that I can sell you, cheap. But the blog you quoted is certainly an ironclad cite. Of course, Mosad knows all. They’re like the boogeymen, and stuff. [QUOTE=pantom] I’m out of here. No way am I debating depraved shit like this, since that would imply that there’s an actual legitimate second side to this. [/QUOTE] War is hell. Its function is to break shit and kill people. Lebanon started the war. Israel is defending itself. How very depraved. Buh bye. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758/60 "2006-07-20T16:58:29Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] This, by the way, perfectly sums up the massive intellectual dishonesty of many Anti-Israel folks. One side is not only targeting civilians, but trying to -maximize- civilian casualties. But that’s gleefully ignored because they’re not as good at murdering Israelis as the Israelis are at defending themselves. Makes perfect sense. [/QUOTE] It does. What matters are results. Does a dead body care if it was collateral damage ? You, of course, hold the position that killing random people is defense, not murder. Only the Israelis are human; to you, killing an enemy soldier is worse than killing a random civilian, as long as the soldier is Israeli. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/israels-tacticial-situation/364758.md?page=4)