# Issues of musical rhythms and tempos **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 29, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/issues-of-musical-rhythms-and-tempos/548511 "2010-07-29T22:13:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/issues-of-musical-rhythms-and-tempos/548511/21 "2010-08-04T19:43:07Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Wow, are you creating music for me as examples?? That’s very nice of you. No problem. > [@](#): > > Ok, I see another issue (or maybe the same one better illustrated) with your drum example. When you go to the triplet beat, with the 4 beat still going alongside, I can hear that it’s three drum hits in one of the four intervals., ie, your tapping the drum 12 times in the same period your originally hit 4. > > But apparently I can’t distinguish that when the triplet is not accompanied by the other beat. I just hear what amounts to a really fast waltz beat. At least that is what I was getting from your second example further back up the thread. There are areas of gray in music, and you can get people arguing about whether something is really a fast waltz or a slow triplet rhythm. For example, is Billy Joel’s Piano Man a quick waltz in 3/4 or a slow 6/8? I hear it as the latter, as I hear the “ONE” coming around every 6 eighth notes, not every three notes. The piano does play a typical waltz accompaniment, but the drums are definitely playing a pattern more close to 6/8 or 12/8 than 3/4. If you look at sheet music, more often than not, you’ll find it notated as 3/4. ETA: [I just found an example of people arguing about Piano Man’s time signature.](http://wapedia.mobi/en/Talk:Piano_Man_%28song%29) First comment: > [@](#): > > The current version says the song is a slow 6/8 time. However, anyone listening to the song will notice it has a strong beat every 3 beats, more characteristic of 3/4 time. Technically this is original research, so i wont edit it, but if anyone wants to cite a reliable source for it, go ahead 70.48.0.59 (talk) 07:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC) Reply: > [@](#): > > The song is in 6/8 time, and would never be described as 3/4 by a musician. If you clicked along to it, would you click rapidly 3 times every bar (3/4 time) like it was a fast march, or twice per 6/8 bar (“it’s NINE o’CLOCK on a SATurday…”)? Although a source is quoted to say it is 3/4 it may be from a beginner’s book. Tiger999 (talk) 16:48, 2 October 2008 (UTC) So it’s not always obvious or clear. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/issues-of-musical-rhythms-and-tempos/548511/22 "2010-08-04T20:04:49Z")
Actually, I didn’t realize that these were considered gray areas or even controversial. I assumed there would be a ‘correct’ answer, there would be some unambiguous rules to apply, even if I didn’t agree with them. And I see there are even “No true musician…” arguments. 😛 Well, I can go with my gut then. Unfortunately my gut tells me different things from one day to the next. Bad diet, I guess. You’ve been really helpful. I believe we can consider this subject closed. I thank you again. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/issues-of-musical-rhythms-and-tempos/548511/23 "2010-08-04T20:28:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Actually, I didn’t realize that these were considered gray areas or even controversial. I assumed there would be a ‘correct’ answer, there would be some unambiguous rules to apply, even if I didn’t agree with them. And I see there are even “No true musician…” arguments. 😛 > > Well, I can go with my gut then. Unfortunately my gut tells me different things from one day to the next. Bad diet, I guess. > > You’ve been really helpful. I believe we can consider this subject closed. I thank you again. Once again, not a problem. Music notation is not an exact science. There are general conventions, and you begin to recognize them and see the point of them the more you play (or actively listen). Playing from sheet music also helps internalize these conventions. And, even then, there can be a lot of disagreement. You should see some of the “name that chord” arguments that go around. (Quickly, a combination of notes played together can have a wild variety of different names, depending on their harmonic context. Sometimes this context is ambiguous, and different listeners interpret the role of the chord differently, and will name it differently.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/issues-of-musical-rhythms-and-tempos/548511.md?page=1)