# Istanbul (Not Constaninople) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 9, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784 "2005-09-09T04:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/21 "2005-09-09T16:31:55Z")
The same reason that Old New York was once New Amsterdam… ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/22 "2005-09-09T17:03:20Z")
Why they changed it I can’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/23 "2005-09-09T17:12:11Z")
So, what is your actual question, other than posting a lyric to a song? I guess it’s lucky that somone put some actual GQ worthy material in here, rather than incessant MPSIMS related material like other people. So, I’ve got a question: Since when did GQ threads become MPSIMS threads? Other than that, I don’t see why this should even remain in GQ. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/24 "2005-09-09T17:13:40Z")
> [@Doobieous](#): > > So, I’ve got a question: Since when did GQ threads become MPSIMS threads? I guess people just liked it better that way. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/25 "2005-09-09T17:41:55Z")
It’s nobody’s business but the Turks. Iiiiiiiiiiiiistanbuuuuuuuuuuuuuullllllllllllll! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/26 "2005-09-09T17:56:59Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Eeven o–old New york, was once New Amsterdam. > > **Why they changed it?** > > [sub]Surely people didn’t just like it better that way.[/sub] Maybe they did, but don’t call me Shirley. Hey, anybody got a link to the Animaniacs video of this? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/27 "2005-09-09T18:01:41Z")
Do you mean Tiny Toons? It is avalible on [this DVD](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008AOT0/ref=pd_art_ftr_4/002-6347886-5154429?v=glance&s=music), which I have a copy of. I think Opal cat (Hi, Opal!) has a copy avalible online, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/28 "2005-09-09T19:01:38Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Eeven o–old New york, was once New Amsterdam. > > **Why they changed it?** > > [sub]Surely people didn’t just like it better that way.[/sub] In 1664, the English captured New Amsterdam, and the Dutch formally ceded it in the Treaty of Breda, ending the second Anglo-Dutch war, and renamed it New York, after James Stuart, Duke of York (who would go on to be King James II). The Dutch recaptured the city in 1673, (during the Third Anglo-Dutch War) renaming it New Orange (well, Nieuwe Oranje), but it passed back into English hands with the signing of the Treaty of Westminster in 1674. A similar thing happened to the other major settlement in the New Netherlands, the settlement of Fort Orange/Beverwyck, which became Albany in 1664, was retaken by the Dutch in 1673 and renamed Willemstadt, and came back under English rule and the name Albany. However, other, smaller settlements in New Netherlands/New York were never renamed, which is why you still find towns and areas in New York State with Dutch names, like Brooklyn, Harlem, Rensselaer, and Schenectady. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/29 "2005-09-09T19:07:35Z")
> [@Doobieous](#): > > So, what is your actual question, other than posting a lyric to a song? It’s a legit question, cleverly framed. > [@Doobieous](#): > > Since when did GQ threads become MPSIMS threads? WAG: Just some standard tomfoolery in the theme of the original question \*\*after \*\* the OP was nailed by post #8? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/30 "2005-09-09T20:53:40Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Do you mean Tiny Toons? It is avalible on [this DVD](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008AOT0/ref=pd_art_ftr_4/002-6347886-5154429?v=glance&s=music), which I have a copy of. > > I think Opal cat (Hi, Opal!) has a copy avalible online, as well. And I have a cel from their video for _Particle Man_. ---
**Author:** ![Greywolf73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d9b06d/32.png) [@Greywolf73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greywolf73)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/31 "2005-09-09T23:02:09Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Why they changed it I can’t say. People just liked it better that waaaay! ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/32 "2005-09-09T23:10:12Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > _All alone at the '64 World’s Fair > Eighty dolls yelling “Small world after all”_ > > Oops, sorry, wrong song That made me laugh a lot. Not so much that I couldn’t correct your lyric: “Eighty dolls yelling 'small _girl_ after all” The real question is who was at the DuPont pavilion? ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/33 "2005-09-10T00:29:40Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > The real question is who was at the DuPont pavilion? This is [what](http://naid.sppsr.ucla.edu/ny64fair/map-docs/dupont.htm) was at the DuPont pavilion. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/34 "2005-09-10T01:02:18Z")
Though **The Loaded Dog** ’s Sephardic link gives a good etymology of Istanbul from Stamboul, there is one error or omission from it that is worth pointing out. Like Rome, London, and New York at various times, Constantinople was **The City** , the city to which the term “the city” without explanation obviously referred. Accordingly, Medieval Eastern Europeans and Middle Easterners would say that they were going “to the city,” eiV ten polin. From this Stamboul and Istanbul were derived. (What I have given is accurate Medieval Greek usage; it may not be correct Classical, _koiné,_ or Modern Greek.) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/35 "2005-09-10T01:13:01Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > But: > > Constaninople was Byzantium, but it (used to be) Constaninople, not Byzantium. Why did Byzantium get the works? I’ve been to Istanbul, walked its streets, shopped in the bazaar, seen the Blue Mosque. Believe me, senator, it’s no Byzantium. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/36 "2005-09-10T01:31:26Z")
[The Four Lads really do swing, don’t they?](http://www.arbproductions.ca/vid/4lads/fourlads-istanbul-lg.wmv) ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/37 "2005-09-10T01:49:47Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Accordingly, Medieval Eastern Europeans and Middle Easterners would say that they were going “to the city,” eiV ten polin. From this Stamboul and Istanbul were derived. (What I have given is accurate Medieval Greek usage; it may not be correct Classical, _koiné,_ or Modern Greek.) Yeesh, making me do work. In General Questions nonetheless. What is this world coming to? I believe “to the city” in 4th century Attic Greek is eiV tou polin. Let me double check my Hansen and Quinn…doh! eiV thn polin. I got my case and gender confused. The _eta_ in the article became an _epsilon_ over the years it appears. Then again, seeing as how Istanbul or whatever didn’t become a big deal until late in the Roman Empire the point’s moot. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/38 "2005-09-10T02:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > That made me laugh a lot. Not so much that I couldn’t correct your lyric: > > “Eighty dolls yelling 'small girl after all” Are you sure that’s the right word? I know I’ve seen it written that way on numerous online lyrics sites. But I’ve also seen it happen where one person uploads the wrong lyrics and every site copies the error. The reason I ask is because the 1964 World’s Fair was where the animotronic exhibit [A Salute to UNICEF](http://naid.sppsr.ucla.edu/ny64fair/map-docs/pepsicola.htm) debuted before moving to its permanent home in Disneyworld. And the exhibit featured a whole bunch of dolls singing “it’s a small world after all”. Anyone who’s gone through this ride will testify you’re not going to forget those lyrics soon. ---
**Author:** ![EnderWay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d26b3c/32.png) [@EnderWay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnderWay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/39 "2005-09-10T02:40:55Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Are you sure that’s the right word? I know I’ve seen it written that way on numerous online lyrics sites. But I’ve also seen it happen where one person uploads the wrong lyrics and every site copies the error. > > The reason I ask is because the 1964 World’s Fair was where the animotronic exhibit [A Salute to UNICEF](http://naid.sppsr.ucla.edu/ny64fair/map-docs/pepsicola.htm) debuted before moving to its permanent home in Disneyworld. And the exhibit featured a whole bunch of dolls singing “it’s a small world after all”. Anyone who’s gone through this ride will testify you’re not going to forget those lyrics soon. Ummm … Have you ever listened to the song? They words are quite clear! “Eighty dolls yelling 'small girl after all” is correct! ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/40 "2005-09-10T03:33:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Then again, seeing as how Istanbul or whatever didn’t become a big deal until late in the Roman Empire the point’s moot. The Roman Empire began with Caesar Augustus, and ended with the 1453 sack of Constantinople, and Constantine made it his capital in 330, so it became a very important city fairly early on in the history of the Empire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784.md?page=3)