# Istanbul (Not Constaninople) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 9, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784 "2005-09-09T04:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/41 "2005-09-10T03:39:14Z")
At least they’re not as uppity as those Damn Ascus folks. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/42 "2005-09-10T03:45:28Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Are you sure that’s the right word? I know I’ve seen it written that way on numerous online lyrics sites. But I’ve also seen it happen where one person uploads the wrong lyrics and every site copies the error. > > The reason I ask is because the 1964 World’s Fair was where the animotronic exhibit [A Salute to UNICEF](http://naid.sppsr.ucla.edu/ny64fair/map-docs/pepsicola.htm) debuted before moving to its permanent home in Disneyworld. And the exhibit featured a whole bunch of dolls singing “it’s a small world after all”. Anyone who’s gone through this ride will testify you’re not going to forget those lyrics soon. Nope. Holding the liner notes to the Dial-a-Song Best of CD in my hands right now and they read “Eighty dolls yelling ‘Small girl after all.’” Perhaps a pun on the eponymous Ana Ng? On preview, that’s one opinion **yBeayf** , but I prefer to think of the fall of the Roman Empire as the sacking of Rome in four hundred (mumble-mumble) CE. Sure, the Byzantines called themselves Caesar or basileus\* as it were, but come on. The Roman empire was dead. \*I’m so giddy that I can do Greek now. Not that I’m very good at it. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/43 "2005-09-10T03:55:26Z")
> [@](#): > > On preview, that’s one opinion yBeayf, but I prefer to think of the fall of the Roman Empire as the sacking of Rome in four hundred (mumble-mumble) CE. Sure, the Byzantines called themselves Caesar or basileus\* as it were, but come on. The Roman empire was dead. Eh. They called themselves Romans, other peoples called them Romans, and they were direct cultural and societal descendants of the Romans-in-Rome. That’s good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/44 "2005-09-10T05:30:14Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > The Roman Empire began with Caesar Augustus, and ended with the 1453 sack of Constantinople, and Constantine made it his capital in 330, so it became a very important city fairly early on in the history of the Empire. [QUOTE=Wolfian] On preview, that’s one opinion **yBeayf** , but I prefer to think of the fall of the Roman Empire as the sacking of Rome in four hundred (mumble-mumble) CE. Sure, the Byzantines called themselves Caesar or basileus\* as it were, but come on. The Roman empire was dead.QUOTE] > [@yBeayf](#): > > Eh. They called themselves Romans, other peoples called them Romans, and they were direct cultural and societal descendants of the Romans-in-Rome. That’s good enough for me. Off topic, but I always love digressions… Myself, while I’m more inclined towards **yBeaf** ’s opinion on this matter, I do tend to differentiate the _Byzantine_ Empire from the _Roman_ Empire. The Greek east superceding the Latin west, the narrowing of the later state to the area centered on Asia Minor, the growing religious schism, the loss of political universality after the Carolingians claimed the imperial title in the west, etc… My own differentiating point ( following others ) for the start of the Byzantine era is the reign of Heraclius beginning in 610, both because of the clear change in dynasty and because the Arab eruption thaat so altered the political landscape broke out on his watch. While some authorities referred to Justinian I as ‘the Last Roman’, I’d actually give that title to the emperor Maurice, with the interregnum of the usurper Phocas ( r. 602-610 ) being a transitional limbo. Of course it is quite true that from the Byzantine standpoint ( and most of Europe ), it was the the legitimate successor to the Roman state. But with the creation and rise of the essentially unrelated Holy Roman Emperors in the west. that singularity was muddied. I think it just makes for easier shorthand to seperate them, despite ( and acknowledging ) the continuous tradition. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784/45 "2005-09-10T18:27:41Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > The Turks didn’t like to have their biggest city named after a Christian Roman Emperor Right on, Tap ! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-not-constaninople/320784.md?page=2)