# Istanbul was Constantinople and even old New York was. . **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 14, 2002, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553 "2002-04-14T07:04:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/1 "2002-04-14T07:04:57Z")
. . . once New Amsterdam. Why they changed it? I don’t know. I am aware of a previous tread regarding this song: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=95232&highlight=Istanbul](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=95232&highlight=Istanbul) But recently, on the radio I heard a classic recording of a comedy show, and darned if the comedians were not doing virtually a word by word of the “They might be giants” song! Sadly I missed both the beginning and the end of the show so I could not identify the players. Does anybody know who were those comedians? FWIW I think the recording and commercials sounded circa 1950. And oh yeah: Why they changed New Amsterdam to New York? ---
**Author:** ![Yersinia\_Pestis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ccd318/32.png) [@Yersinia\_Pestis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yersinia_Pestis)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/2 "2002-04-14T07:38:10Z")
> [@](#): > > And oh yeah: Why they changed New Amsterdam to New York? When the English took it away from the Dutch in 1664 they renamed it to suit their own taste. “Istanbul [Not Constinople]” wasn’t written by TMBG. A group called the Four Lads took it to #10 in 1953. [http://www.tmbg.org/band-info/faq/#q18](http://www.tmbg.org/band-info/faq/#q18) ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/3 "2002-04-14T09:36:28Z")
Istanbul also was called Bazance and, I’m not making this up, New Rome once, after it became the capital of the eastern part of the Empire (split for administratory reasons). ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/4 "2002-04-14T09:39:17Z")
Byzance. Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/5 "2002-04-14T12:26:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GIGObuster \* > . . . once New Amsterdam. > Why they changed it? I don’t know. Why’d they change it? I can’t say. People just liked it better that way. I remember Sha Na Na doing a version of this song on their old TV show in the 70s. And Schnitte, shouldn’t that be Byzantium? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/6 "2002-04-14T12:27:32Z")
I just noticed your location. You probably call Charlemagne “Karl der Grosse” or some such silly thing. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/7 "2002-04-14T14:17:17Z")
Paris used to be Lutetia. Cairo started out as Fustat. The West Side of Cleveland started out as Ohio City. Medina used to be Yathrib (I mean the Medina in Arabia, not the one in Ohio). Lots of these in Africa — Léopoldville/Kinshasa, Salisbury/Harare, Bathurst/Banjul, etc. And Asia — Khaghanbalghasu/Peip‘ing/Beijing, Edo/Tôkyô, Madras/Cennai, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/8 "2002-04-14T14:19:37Z")
Austin used to be Waterloo, not that anyone cares. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/9 "2002-04-14T14:25:08Z")
Man, I never thought of Bruce Willis as Homer. I can actually see it. Marge would have to be played by Julie Kavner. Nobody else can do that voice. Until his testicles dropped, Frankie Muniz would have been a perfect Bart Simpson. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/10 "2002-04-14T14:26:21Z")
Dammit, wrong thread. Sorry 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/11 "2002-04-14T15:43:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\*And Schnitte, shouldn’t that be Byzantium? \*\* Then it’d be Byzantion, since it was a Greek town. (I didn’t know the English term, so I googled a few versions, and I got quite a number of hits for Byzance, so I assumed this was it. In German, it’s “Byzanz”.) And yes, we refer to Charlemagne as “Karl der Große”. ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/12 "2002-04-14T16:27:10Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Yersinia Pestis_ > **When the English took it away from the Dutch in 1664 they renamed it to suit their own taste.** The English didn’t “take away” New Amsterdam from the Dutch; it was traded to the English, who in return gave the tulip-eaters Suriname. For centuries, the Dutch considered this a good trade, since the U.S. colonies rebelled, whereas Suriname didn’t gain full independence until the mid-1970s. Lagniappe: St. Paul, Minnesota, started out as Pig’s Eye. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/13 "2002-04-14T17:12:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GIGObuster \* > But recently, on the radio I heard a classic recording of a comedy show, and darned if the comedians were not doing virtually a word by word of the “They might be giants” song! Sadly I missed both the beginning and the end of the show so I could not identify the players. Does anybody know who were those comedians? I think it’s The Four Tops, though I know some folks say it’s Neil Diamond. In any event, that’s the _original_ version of **Istanbul,** which TMBG did a cover of. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/14 "2002-04-14T17:29:33Z")
Quoth **Jomo Mojo** : > [@](#): > > The West Side of Cleveland started out as Ohio City. Still is, actually. Or at least, the parts of it that ever were Ohio City in the first place. It’s a neighborhood now, rather than an independent city, but every Clevelander will know exactly what you mean when you say “Ohio City”. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/15 "2002-04-14T17:36:48Z")
Uh, thanks fot the New York info, but you guys are not quite getting it, I know already about the four tops but what I am talking about is a _comedy_ routine circa 1950 that was NOT a song. AFAICR the sketch was about two guys running into a know-it-all ticket seller (in a train station?) and it definitely had the “nobody’s business but the Turks” line. My theory is that the singers were inspired by that comedy bit to create the original song. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/16 "2002-04-14T18:24:58Z")
> [@](#): > > _From [Spaceagepop.com](http://www.spaceagepop.com/nearsong.htm)_ > “Istanbul” 1953 > > Words by Jimmy Kennedy > Music by Nat Simon > > “It’s Istanbul, not Constantinople now …” Leave it to Tin Pan Alley to turn centuries of ethnic and religious struggles into a catchy ditty. This song, although copyrighted by Kennedy and Simon, is a direct descendant of the humourous piece, “Al-Bar the Bubul Emir” that could be found in the pages of “Captain Billy’s Whizbang,” an early 20th century precursor to “Mad Magazine.” That’s the best I could find as it relates to comedy performances. BTW- did the Four Tops really do a version of Istanbul? I can’t find anything about that at all. ---
**Author:** ![Yersinia\_Pestis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ccd318/32.png) [@Yersinia\_Pestis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yersinia_Pestis)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/17 "2002-04-14T23:45:25Z")
It was the Four **Lads** , not the Four Tops. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/18 "2002-04-15T05:03:07Z")
I always thought that the Animaniacs were the ones who did this song. . .😃 And Ottawa, Canada used to be Bytown. I think. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/19 "2002-04-15T08:28:25Z")
Actually, Ohio City still exists, about 10 miles south of me here in western Ohio. Been there for more than 100 years. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/20 "2002-04-15T12:37:17Z")
**Cairo** has had a lot of names. Accordinfg to Sir Richard Burton, one of these was **Bab-al-Yun** , which caused a lot of confusion for Westerners, especially during the Crusades, since they confused it with “Babylon”, that seat of Evil. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553.md?page=2)