# Istanbul was Constantinople and even old New York was. . **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 14, 2002, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553 "2002-04-14T07:04:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/21 "2002-04-15T14:09:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Schnitte \* > \*\*“der Große”. \*\* Geshundheit. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/22 "2002-04-15T14:34:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\*I remember Sha Na Na doing a version of this song on their old TV show in the 70s. \*\* Damn you! I had successfully blocked that out of my memory. Now you revived “Bowser” and all that entails for me. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/23 "2002-04-15T21:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Angel of the Lord \* > \*\*I always thought that the Animaniacs were the ones who did this song. . .😃 \*\* No, I’m pretty sure it was Plucky Duck, Private Eye. (Although why anyone would _want_ to start a detective agency in Istanbul/Constantinople/Byzantium/all of the above, I have no idea…) ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/24 "2002-04-16T07:31:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by St. Urho \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > From [Spaceagepop.com](http://Spaceagepop.com) > > “Istanbul” 1953 > > > > Words by Jimmy Kennedy > > Music by Nat Simon > > > > “It’s Istanbul, not Constantinople now …” Leave it to Tin Pan Alley to turn centuries of ethnic and religious struggles into a catchy ditty. This song, although copyrighted by Kennedy and Simon, is a direct descendant of the humourous piece, “Al-Bar the Bubul Emir” that could be found in the pages of “Captain Billy’s Whizbang,” an early 20th century precursor to “Mad Magazine.” > > That’s the best I could find as it relates to comedy performances. > > BTW- did the Four Tops really do a version of Istanbul? I can’t find anything about that at all. \*\* The “humorous piece” that is mentioned here sounds like the poem/folk song “Abdullah Bulbul Amir” which lyrics can be found [here](http://www.nightlightpress.com/airsick/story/0204011807.shtml). It is a “descendant” only in the sense of the mention of “ethnic and religious struggles” and not in the direct quoting sense. Information about the writer of the lyrics, Jimmy Kennedy can be found [here](http://www.musicweb.uk.net/encyclopaedia/k/K26.HTM), which mentions the Four Tops (1954) and also includes the the interesting fact that he was the author of “The Hokey Pokey”! (although that wasn’t exactly the original title). ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/25 "2002-04-16T07:38:23Z")
Oops, Make that Four **Lads**. ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/26 "2002-04-16T07:46:07Z")
And sorry, **Lok** , but the Ohio City in Cleveland (formerly across the Cuyahoga from Cleveland) goes back more than **160** years, since its founding in 1836. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/27 "2002-04-16T09:27:32Z")
A slight hijack… …And, as a side note, “Abdullah Bulbul Amir” is the song the android Lore sings on an episode of Star Trek: TNG. And San Francisco used to be named “Yerba Buena” Ranchoth ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/28 "2002-04-21T12:47:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*I know some folks say it’s Neil Diamond. In any event, that’s the _original_ version of **Istanbul,** which TMBG did a cover of. \*\* Neil Diamond singing **Istanbul**? My mind can’t grasp that. ---
**Author:** ![ageless6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@ageless6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ageless6)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/29 "2002-04-21T13:39:34Z")
And pot used to be called “muggles”, which is my favorite slang term for it. “Still it’s Turkish delight on a moonlit night”… ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/30 "2002-04-21T14:13:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by peepthis \* > \*\* > Lagniappe: St. Paul, Minnesota, started out as Pig’s Eye. \*\* Pity they changed it. “The Twin Cities of Minneapolis and Pig’s Eye” It’s got a ring to it. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/31 "2002-04-21T15:17:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\* > > Pity they changed it. “The Twin Cities of Minneapolis and Pig’s Eye” It’s got a ring to it. \*\* Well, if you’re going to go that way, it should really be “The Twin Cities of St. Anthony and Pig’s Eye”. jayjay ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/32 "2002-04-21T19:26:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\ ***Cairo** has had a lot of names. Accordinfg to Sir Richard Burton, one of these was **Bab-al-Yun** , which caused a lot of confusion for Westerners, especially during the Crusades, since they confused it with “Babylon”, that seat of Evil. \*\* Nearly all Egyptian place names have changed from ancient times, some more than once, as different conquerors took over. The U.S. has had fewer changes than other places, since we’re much newer, and haven’t had successions of conquerors. Still, there are some: Albany, NY was originally Ft. Orange Stillwater, NY, was originally Saratoga. It changed because of confusion with the larger Saratoga Springs, but is home for the Battle of Saratoga battlefield. There is a movement to change the name to Old Saratoga, but it hasn’t gotten enough support. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/33 "2002-04-21T21:18:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Angel of the Lord \* > \*\*And Ottawa, Canada used to be Bytown. I think. \*\* Correct. (It was named after a British Army officer, Colonel John By.) Sudbury, a smaller city in the same province, was once called “Ste-Anne-Among-The-Pines”. Toronto was “York” There are plenty of places in Northern Canada that used to have English names like “Davis Inlet” and have reverted to their Inuktitut names- things like “Kangiksuallujjuak”. I can’t remember them all. (Note: Davis Inlet and Kangik(soft ‘g’)suallujjuak are not the same place) And of course, Petrograd (St. Petersburg) was Leningrad for a while, no? ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/34 "2002-04-21T21:21:34Z")
Kitchener, another city in the Canadian province of Ontario, was called Berlin until the Great War broke out. People decided it was unpatriotic, so they renamed the town after the secretary of war. ---
**Author:** ![PlanMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@PlanMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlanMan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/35 "2002-04-21T21:35:18Z")
Jacksonville, Fla. used to be Wacca Pilatka, in the native tongue (Creek? Timuquan?), which the English translated as Cowford. This was many years after but near the site of the first Eurpoean settlement in what became the USA - Fort Caroline. Then the Spaniards got their shorts in a wad, established St. Augustine down the coast and massacred the French. So now St. Augustine is the oldest continuous Euro-settlement in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Cosmopolitan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Cosmopolitan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cosmopolitan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2002, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/36 "2002-04-21T23:06:47Z")
I’ve nothing meaningful to add - just came to say that I stumbled upon the They Might Be Giants version on my radio a couple days ago and it made me so very happy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553/37 "2002-04-22T02:28:36Z")
_Four Lads is correct, Four Tops is wrong. Four Lads is correct, Four Tops is wrong. Four Lads is correct, Four Tops is wrong. Four Lads is correct, Four Tops is wrong._ [sub]\[/sub] Oh, sorry! Am I on? Where was I? Oh, Thanks for the info **ST Urno** , at least there is a good chance I did not imagine the comedy sketch on the radio. I still insist that it was not a poetry sketch. And here is my bit of name change trivia: Before independence, Mexico and Central America were known as “Nueva España” (New Spain) Mexico City was Tenochtitlan during the Aztec empire, but the entire official name of the city still includes that old title! I wonder (if just like in the case of Los Angeles, that has an ungodly long official name) if the Pig’s Eye from Minneapolis still lives! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istanbul-was-constantinople-and-even-old-new-york-was/103553.md?page=1)