# ISTM that men are more commonly referred to by their surnames as compared to women **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 27, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868 "2021-04-27T16:42:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/41 "2021-04-30T01:46:31Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Another possible factor: certain male given names are extremely common. Who hasn’t ever been in a room with multiple Johns, Jameses, Roberts, Michaels, Davids, or Williams (or some variation of each). > > I’ve encountered many situations, in both professional and personal life, where other men in the room had the same first name so the usual options are either someone has to pick a variant to go by, or “first name, last initial,” or just surnames. My given first name is “Susan”. I have never used that name, as my parents called me by my middle name since i was born, and it’s stuck. (And I’ve since taken it as my legal first name.) But I’ve always been aware of how many Susans are out there. One year in overnight camp, i shared a cabin with two "Sue"s, a “Susan”, a “Susie”, and a “Robin”. None of us were called by our last names. Because, as mentioned above, those weren’t really ours. We were expected to grow up and take some guy’s name. ---
**Author:** ![PointyOintment](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pointyointment/32/7777_2.png) [@PointyOintment](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PointyOintment)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/42 "2021-04-30T02:47:11Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > See also > > …Wikipedia: Tabby’s Star… > > Named for Dr. Tabetha Boyajian That’s another example I’ve known of for a while. I didn’t happen to think of it when I wrote my earlier post, somewhy, though I think of it more often than I think of the example I did give. However, unlike with the Matilda effect example, Wikipedia does say (emphasis mine): > [@Wikipedia: Tabby's Star](#): > > Tabby’s Star (_also known as Boyajian’s Star_ […]) so some reliable sources must be calling it that. But I haven’t actually seen it called that in the wild, myself. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Not only is it named for her given name, but a diminutive “cutesy” version thereof. Yes. I wonder if there’s any public info one way or the other as to whether she actually goes by “Tabby” at all. Regardless of the answer to that (it being a secondary factor), I prefer the term “Boyajian’s Star”. But, given which part of my post you quoted before introducing this example, do you lean toward using her given name in this case to show that it’s named after a woman? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/43 "2021-04-30T03:06:43Z")
I reluctantly lean a little towards the “use woman’s given name” approach. It amounts to a form of reverse discrimination. Which is inherently very suspect, but may be necessary in measured doses for some measured time interval to overcome the inertia of history. Much as we justify other forms of measured reverse discrimination even as we hold our nose while doing so. As to whether she goes by “Tabby”, **[her own website](http://www.astro.yale.edu/tabetha/Site/About_Me.html)** suggests not, but also suggests she’s got a sense of humor about her name. She may well have used Tabby as an undergrad and before. Now that she’s got some gravitas in her field, she’s becoming Tabetha or Dr. Boyajian. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/44 "2021-04-30T03:33:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “Smith, have you got that TPS report yet?” " Yes, Mr Jones. It will be on your desk." > > I do not let people call me just by my surname. I will gently correct them. I think I’d correct them more than “gently”. As I said upthread, my surname was used only by those who were disrespectful to me in high school. As an adult, I haven’t heard anybody, male or female, called by their surname except 1) Cultures where that’s common, like here in China or 2) People for whom the surname sort of became their given name, as their given name is difficult to pronounce e.g. “Dzichtchi Borisov” (not a real name, I think) might become “Boris(ov)” in the English speaking world for practical reasons. Otherwise I would consider it very rude. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/45 "2021-04-30T05:25:09Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I reluctantly lean a little towards the “use woman’s given name” approach. It amounts to a form of reverse discrimination. Which is inherently very suspect, but may be necessary in measured doses for some measured time interval to overcome the inertia of history. It is not so hard to just ask people. My Employees called me Mr Deth, I said, no just my first name. But I said if you drop a occasional “sir” I will not get upset but neither do I expect it. I was at least twice their age, so… ---
**Author:** ![PointyOintment](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pointyointment/32/7777_2.png) [@PointyOintment](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PointyOintment)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2021, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/46 "2021-04-30T06:12:08Z")
I was just looking in my notes for an unrelated reason and noticed I had a note listing a few examples of this phenomenon. The only one that hasn’t been posted here already: > **[Hanny's Voorwerp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanny's_Voorwerp)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > Hanny's Voorwerp /ˈhʌniz ˈvɔːrwɛərp/, (Dutch for Hanny's object) is a rare type of astronomical object called a quasar ionization echo. It was discovered in 2007 by Dutch schoolteacher Hanny van Arkel while she was participating as a volunteer in the Galaxy Zoo project, part of the Zooniverse group of citizen science websites. Photographically, it appears as a bright blob close to spiral galaxy IC 2497 in the constellation Leo Minor. “Voorwerp... ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/47 "2021-05-01T00:18:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > I reluctantly lean a little towards the “use woman’s given name” approach. It amounts to a form of reverse discrimination. Which is inherently very suspect, but may be necessary in measured doses for some measured time interval to overcome the inertia of history. > > It is not so hard to just ask people. > > My Employees called me Mr Deth, I said, no just my first name. But I said if you drop a occasional “sir” I will not get upset but neither do I expect it. I was at least twice their age, so… You did understand that I was replying to a post about policies governing choices by central naming bodies naming things in honor of their (possibly deceased) discoverers? My comment was not about asking my cubemate whether he prefers John, Smith, or Mr. Smith. For that I agree with you: simply ask. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/48 "2021-05-01T01:11:05Z")
Missed that. duh-oh. 🤪 😳 ---
**Author:** ![epbrown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2021, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/49 "2021-05-01T10:57:33Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > My comment was not about asking my cubemate whether he prefers John, Smith, or Mr. Smith. For that I agree with you: simply ask. That’s also fraught with problems. I had a 20-something white kid ask me to call him P-diddy. “No.” ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/50 "2021-05-03T21:28:17Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > In my fraternity pledge class of 11, three of us had the same first name including myself. I went to an all-boys school. In my fourth grade class of 18, 7 of us were named John. I’m actually a Jonathan, but was always called Jon. That year was when I started going by Jonathan. One of the boys had always been known as Jack. The other five had to fight it out I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/51 "2021-05-04T01:28:02Z")
> [@PointyOintment](#): > > It also happens when things are named after people. See also: street names. Streets commemorating a man almost always bear his last name (with exceptions for the regnal names of kings), while streets named for a woman frequently use her first name: [“San Francisco’s McAllister Street was named after an American male attorney, while Octavia Street was named after a woman who was the sister of a politician.”](https://sf.curbed.com/2015/11/5/9903648/does-san-francisco-have-mostly-gender-biased-street-names) ---
**Author:** ![PointyOintment](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pointyointment/32/7777_2.png) [@PointyOintment](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PointyOintment)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868/52 "2021-05-04T04:11:33Z")
That example reminds me: The site where the Curiosity rover landed on Mars is called [Bradbury Landing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradbury_Landing), after [Ray Bradbury](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Bradbury). The site where Perseverance landed just a couple of months ago is called [Octavia E. Butler Landing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavia_E._Butler_Landing), after [Octavia E. Butler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavia_E._Butler). (The theme is science fiction authors.) But, in that case, though the form of name differs, they did use her full name, so it’s not an informal form like Octavia Street. And she seems to be less well known than Bradbury, so it’s understandable that they’d want it to be clear that the site is named after a woman, which wasn’t a concern with Bradbury Landing. Maybe, back in 2012, they should have thought ahead and used the name Ray Bradbury Landing, but they didn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/istm-that-men-are-more-commonly-referred-to-by-their-surnames-as-compared-to-women/940868.md?page=2)