# It appears Iran wants to park some ships off our east coast. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882 "2011-09-28T14:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/41 "2011-09-28T18:36:13Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > They do - by world standards, a pretty capable one, actually. A few large destroyers, 14 very modern frigates. Twelve frigates, not 14. There’s one named after each of the 10 provincial capitals, plus Montreal and Ottawa. But you’re correct in that you wouldn’t want one pissed off at you. NATO warships are very powerful indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/42 "2011-09-28T18:40:50Z")
Probably the only serious shot Iranian warships have for the East Coast is spending a few months/years recommissioning their Sumner-class destroyers. Then they can high-five themselves for sailing two WWII (seriously, 5" guns?) US vessels back to us. =P ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/43 "2011-09-28T18:47:03Z")
This is going to be funny as hell. I’m giving odds that the Coast Guard will have to come to the rescue of any Iranian ship that even makes it to the East Coast. The Iranians have zero experience in ocean crossings, and the slightest weather will send them reeling. A better bet is that the fleet “redeploys” off Morocco. Or Yemen. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/44 "2011-09-28T18:52:00Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > They have three diesel subs with a range of 7500 miles. [Kilo-class submarine - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilo_class) > I doubt they will deploy the subs. That’s the biggest threat though, for a relative value of threat. Kilos are sneaky motherfuckers - even quieter than the ultra-modern Sea Wolves & Virginias of the USN. Even considering their need to come up for air once in a while, it would be pretty tough to actually catch one that didn’t want to be caught. That being said, while they’ll sneak right up your colon without you noticing they don’t really pack much of a punch - IIRC they only carry a couple dozen torpedoes/SUBROCs and no land attack missiles whatsoever (never mind ballistic freaky stuff). The worst they could do would be to anonymously and highly deniably sprinkle mines along shipping routes or outside major ports, which admittedly would be pretty darn bad (like shut down half of the world’s trade bad - no shipping insurance company is going to cover even the most remote chance of a minefield, and ships don’t sail without insurance) but not “America in flames” bad. Then again they could achieve the exact same catastrophic trade disruption much closer to home by mining the straight of Hormuz and/or Bab el Mandeb so… _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/45 "2011-09-28T19:02:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s a bit much. I’m pretty sure the USCG doesn’t have anything bigger than small arms on most of its ships (and nothing bigger than 57mm deck guns on any of its ships), so it doesn’t really matter how many ships and personnel it has. > > Of course, none of that matters, because we’re not likely to send out the Coast Guard to deal with the Iranians. Unless perhaps one of their ships sinks and they need rescuing… Although I agree with your general sentiment, the USCG has 76mm deck guns on its Hamilton Class High Endurance Cutters. I think these are typically the 76mm Otobreda that was reverse-engineered and produced as the Fajr-27 by Iran. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/46 "2011-09-28T19:06:11Z")
The USN developed some deployable minesweeping capabilities after some tankers hit mines in the Gulf in the eighties. Even if they mined Miami, I think the USN could clear a channel within a few days. > **[Naval mine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine#Mine_hunting)** > > A naval mine is a self-contained explosive weapon placed in water to damage or destroy surface ships or submarines. Similar to anti-personnel and other land mines, and unlike purpose launched naval depth charges, they are deposited and left to wait until, depending on their fuzing, they are triggered by the approach of or contact with any vessel. > Naval mines can be used offensively, to hamper enemy shipping movements or lock vessels into a harbour; or defensively, to create "safe" zones prote... > [@](#): > > Sea mammals (mainly the Bottlenose Dolphin) have been trained to hunt and mark mines, most famously by the U.S. Navy Marine Mammal Program. Mine-clearance dolphins were deployed in the Persian Gulf during the Iraq War in 2003. The Navy claims that these dolphins were effective in helping to clear more than 100 antiship mines and underwater booby traps from Umm Qasr Port. 😛 > **[File:MH-53E Sea Dragon towing sled.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MH-53E_Sea_Dragon_towing_sled.jpg)** > > Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > You cannot overwrite this file. The following page uses this file: > The following other wikis use this file: > **[Avenger-class mine countermeasures ship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenger_class_mine_countermeasures_ship)** > > Avenger-class mine countermeasures ships are a class of 14 ships constructed for the United States Navy from 1987 to 1994, designed to clear mines from vital waterways. The ships have the hull designator MCM. > The Avenger-class ships are being replaced by the Freedom and Independence-class littoral combat ships, as well as other MCM platforms, which use various unmanned air, surface, and undersea vehicles to detect and destroy naval mines at a standoff distance. > In the early 1980s, the U.S. Na... ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/47 "2011-09-28T19:12:13Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > If you’re on the Med, you want a navy. History has been very, very cruel to countries that try to do without, for more or less as long as people have been living there. But they’re not on the Med. Still, they border the most important shipping lane in the world. It should be no surprise that they have a Navy. What should we do? I like the idea of offering asylum, but that won’t happen. We’ll just sit and watch and not make a bid deal out of it. As long as they stay in international waters, we can’t do anything anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/48 "2011-09-28T19:23:44Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The USN developed some deployable minesweeping capabilities after some tankers hit mines in the Gulf in the eighties. Even if they mined Miami, I think the USN could clear a channel within a few days. > > [Naval mine - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine#Mine_hunting) > > 😛 > > [File:MH-53E Sea Dragon towing sled.jpg - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MH-53E_Sea_Dragon_towing_sled.jpg) > > [Avenger-class mine countermeasures ship - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avenger_class_mine_countermeasures_ship) Oh, there have always been ways to clear mines, but that’s not the issue. The issue is, the first indication anyone’s going to get that “there are submarine-deployed mines here” is going to be some cargo ship blowing up out of nowhere. This is the first chilling effect - even if the Navy sends engineer dolphins (wth ?), what if they missed one ?! And the second chilling effect of course is that if a sub deployed one mine field covertly, well, they could drop another one anywhere, any time. And once again, the first warning of it would be another supertanker kissing the sky. So, basically, as long as subs with a grudge are known to be operating in a given area (and getting refueled/rearmed somehow - presumably with that supply vessel mentionned upthread, but also possibly by Cuba), nobody’s going to want to risk getting their feet (and their financial assets) wet. They wouldn’t even have to drop any payload past the first one to be effective, at least for a little while… but then, I don’t think the US (or the world) could deal with even just a week of zero traffic from the East Coast. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/49 "2011-09-28T19:27:01Z")
Wait a fucking minute guys. Canada has a navy? I didn’t even know they had a _military_. I thought they were like Costa Rica or they were pacifists or environmentalists or some shit. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/50 "2011-09-28T19:34:19Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh, there have always been ways to clear mines, but that’s not the issue. > > The issue is, the first indication anyone’s going to get that “there are submarine-deployed mines here” is going to be some cargo ship blowing up out of nowhere. This is the first chilling effect - even if the Navy sends engineer dolphins (wth ?), what if they missed one ?! > And the second chilling effect of course is that if a sub deployed one mine field covertly, well, they could drop another one anywhere, any time. And once again, the first warning of it would be another supertanker kissing the sky. Well, I think the point of the announced cruise was so that the Iranian President gets to say that the cruise proves that Iran is a world power ™, and should be taken more seriously. A stealthy sub laying mines is not the correct approach to that kind of goal. You want something visible to use to print pictures in the papers. > [@](#): > > So, basically, as long as subs with a grudge are known to be operating in a given area (and getting refueled/rearmed somehow - presumably with that supply vessel mentionned upthread, but also possibly by Cuba), nobody’s going to want to risk getting their feet (and their financial assets) wet. They wouldn’t even have to drop any payload past the first one to be effective, at least for a little while… but then, I don’t think the US (or the world) could deal with even just a week of zero traffic from the East Coast. While in war time, I don’t think one sub could paralyze the entire east coast, I am sometimes surprised when my fellow humans engage in irrational behavior. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/51 "2011-09-28T19:37:55Z")
The CNN article calls the force “the Navy of the Army”. Why not just call it the Navy? Is it the Army that’s calling the shots in Iran? I thought it was the “Supreme Leader”? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/52 "2011-09-28T19:40:23Z")
Could we arraneg with our friends (the Israeli Navy) for the ships to have an “accident” whilst transiting the Red Sea? I’m thinking a boiler explosion, contact with an unswept mine, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/53 "2011-09-28T19:47:09Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > The Med? Iran’s not on the Mediterranean Sea. 😕 No, it’s not rocket surgery, it’s geography. At which, evidently, I fail. In my defense, I was flipping between the Dope and an article about Libya whilst undercaffeinated. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/54 "2011-09-28T19:53:43Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Well, I think the point of the announced cruise was so that the Iranian President gets to say that the cruise proves that Iran is a world power ™, and should be taken more seriously. A stealthy sub laying mines is not the correct approach to that kind of goal. You want something visible to use to print pictures in the papers. Oh absolutely - I don’t think the submarine minefield plan is even remotely likely in this particular case. As you say, the point of submarine shenanigans is stealth . Would be kinda retarded to tip their hand first. Not that military retardedness is particularly rare but still :D. That, and Ahmadinejad isn’t crazy enough to \*actually \*attack the US. He just wants to tell his people he totally could if he wanted to. Hoist the flag, that sort of thing. IOW, a non-event. I was just laying out the worst case scenario for wargaming’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/55 "2011-09-28T20:00:40Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Wait a fucking minute guys. Canada has a navy? I didn’t even know they had a _military_. I thought they were like Costa Rica or they were pacifists or environmentalists or some shit. And for the last ten years it’s been employed defending the United States from its enemies, at quite great cost in money and lives. You’re welcome! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/56 "2011-09-28T20:07:33Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > And for the last ten years it’s been employed defending the United States from its enemies, at quite great cost in money and lives. You’re welcome! Thank you. Er, could you elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/57 "2011-09-28T20:16:26Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Could we arraneg with our friends (the Israeli Navy) for the ships to have an “accident” whilst transiting the Red Sea? > I’m thinking a boiler explosion, contact with an unswept mine, etc. This is a very bad idea. I’ve been looking for a modifier to adequately express how “bad” this idea is, but my thesaurus only goes up to “galactic”. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/58 "2011-09-28T20:23:36Z")
I don’t see the concern, frankly. If they cause us any trouble we’ll send a plane to sink them. Air Power = check mate. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/59 "2011-09-28T20:24:36Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh, there have always been ways to clear mines, but that’s not the issue. > > The issue is, the first indication anyone’s going to get that “there are submarine-deployed mines here” is going to be some cargo ship blowing up out of nowhere. This is the first chilling effect - even if the Navy sends engineer dolphins (wth ?), what if they missed one ?! > And the second chilling effect of course is that if a sub deployed one mine field covertly, well, they could drop another one anywhere, any time. And once again, the first warning of it would be another supertanker kissing the sky. > > So, basically, as long as subs with a grudge are known to be operating in a given area (and getting refueled/rearmed somehow - presumably with that supply vessel mentionned upthread, but also possibly by Cuba), nobody’s going to want to risk getting their feet (and their financial assets) wet. They wouldn’t even have to drop any payload past the first one to be effective, at least for a little while… but then, I don’t think the US (or the world) could deal with even just a week of zero traffic from the East Coast. The problem is that there’s no definite deniability with mines–we proved that in 1988, when we proved (via serial numbers, iirc) that Iran was responsible for the minefields in Hormuz, which we punished them to the tune of several sunken warships and oil platforms for to international acclaim. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/60 "2011-09-28T20:34:42Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The problem is that there’s no definite deniability with mines–we proved that in 1988, when we proved (via serial numbers, iirc) that Iran was responsible for the minefields in Hormuz, which we punished them to the tune of several sunken warships and oil platforms for to international acclaim. Reckon they’d make the same mistake twice ? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882.md?page=4)