# It appears Iran wants to park some ships off our east coast. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882 "2011-09-28T14:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/101 "2011-09-29T19:19:59Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The CNN article calls the force “the Navy of the Army”. > > Why not just call it the Navy? Is it the Army that’s calling the shots in Iran? I thought it was the “Supreme Leader”? It’s sort of like the Chinese…they do the same thing. You hit the nail on the head there…neither country has a naval tradition (well, the recent incarnations of both countries don’t, even if historically they both did), so the Army is the primary arm. As to political power in Iran, that’s a bit more murky, but certainly the military plays a key role and has quite a bit of political power in Iran (and China to for that matter). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/102 "2011-09-29T19:38:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The U.S. should send one ship, a particularly small and fast ship, to blast rock’n’roll music at the Iranians. I prefer episodes of “Modern Family” instead…for more effect. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/103 "2011-09-29T20:09:07Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > There’s some thought that Iran has a [supercavitating torpedo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoot_%28missile%29) reverse-engineered from a Russian version. That might pose some threat to US naval vessels, because of the extreme speed of engagement, and certainly would be able to harm merchant shipping. > > It’ll be interesting to see how the US responds. Really, any responses like this totally miss the point. Iran isn’t going to waste their two most modern light frigates, the heaviest vessels in their inventory, to sink a few merchant ships. The ONLY possible result of that is the following: 1. One OHPerry-class U.S. Frigate sinks both of them with one hand tied behind its back. 2. The US, and anyone else whose shipping was hit/endangered, bombs Iran into a uniform paste-like consistency. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/104 "2011-09-29T20:19:36Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > 1. One OHPerry-class U.S. Frigate sinks both of them with one hand tied behind its back. I think it only fair that this guy sick them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/105 "2011-09-29T20:26:13Z")
We could use our fantastic teleport technology from the Philadelphia Experiment to counteract their magical torpedoes, if it comes to that. Plus, we have Batboy…let’s see the Iranian’s counter THAT!!! :eek: If needs be, we could always fall back on the Aliens Gambit(aar)… -XT ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/106 "2011-09-29T20:31:56Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > 1. One OHPerry-class U.S. Frigate sinks both of them with one hand tied behind its back. I hope for their sake the Iranians sail better than I post. As I tried to post earlier, I think it only fair that [this guy](http://navysite.de/ssn/ssn23.htm) sink them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/107 "2011-09-29T20:43:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There’s this war in Afghanistan. We aren’t there because _we_ got attacked. [In my opinion, you were.](http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/09/07/1810996.html) ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/108 "2011-09-29T22:07:06Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I hope for their sake the Iranians sail better than I post. > > As I tried to post earlier, I think it only fair that [this guy](http://navysite.de/ssn/ssn23.htm) sink them. > 🙂 If we’re going for symbolic value, I’d send [this guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Samuel_B._Roberts_(FFG-58)). Probably still has a bit of a grudge. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/109 "2011-09-29T22:41:55Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > Detonating a nuclear weapon with the intent to destroy a nation’s economy is an act of war. Iran’s interest is dominating the middle east, not getting into a full on dog fight with America. > > If am Iranian nuclear weapon were to detonate over the US, Iran will cease as a nation–they will be exterminated (unless they surrender unconditionally). This isn’t hyperbole The only practical use for nuclear weapons is for defense by intimidation–if someone decides to use, you’re telling the other side all bets are off. The only choice the other nation has then, is to go down swinging. IIRC, all the war-gaming (unclassified) that I’ve read that involved the use of a single nuclear weapon eventually ended up running into a full-blown exchange. Let’s look at this scenario for a moment. Iran detonates a nuclear weapon out at sea along the East Coast. Nobody dies. It does $10 trillion dollars of economic damage. They surrender. The religious council apologies profusely for their raving lunatic of a President. They turn The crazy man over to our legal system. He declares himself the 12th Imam who has come back to avenge the evil US and Israel. Can’t be more crazy than that. From our position we can’t punish an entire nation because of a crazy man. To radicals who believe in his cause he has brought a giant to it’s knees and it’s a sign of the prophesy and becomes a great recruiting tool. > [@user\_hostile](#): > > What’s a non-conventional nuclear weapon? As I understand it, the term “conventional weapon” normally denotes a weapon which is non-nuclear type. A conventional nuclear weapon is a fission bomb which is the first step in developing the technology. it is also more useful than a hydrogen enhanced bomb for the purposes of an EMP weapon. such a weapon does not require a sophisticated ballistic delivery system. It only has to go up. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/110 "2011-09-29T22:48:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I hope for their sake the Iranians sail better than I post. > > As I tried to post earlier, I think it only fair that [this guy](http://navysite.de/ssn/ssn23.htm) sink them. > 🙂 You know, every time I’m reminded this boat exists, I shake my head at the idea somebody named such a beautiful baby after such a goofy looking bloke. [QUOTE=Sailboat] There’s some thought that Iran has a [supercavitating torpedo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoot_%28missile%29) reverse-engineered from a Russian version. That might pose some threat to US naval vessels, because of the extreme speed of engagement, and certainly would be able to harm merchant shipping. [/QUOTE] On the assumption that it’s a straight copy of the Shkval: not really, or rather not particularly more than surplus Soviet stuff from the 80s. For one thing, it’s a sub weapon (or rather, among the Iranian Navy roster, only their subs have the required torp tube size)- if they’re sending ships rather than boats, it’s a non-issue. For another, conventional torpedoes are 100% better than the Shkval for all but one purpose: counter-firing at submarines that shot first. The idea is that when a sub fires, it briefly gives away its position (or at least its bearing from you, if you don’t have a buddy around to help triangulate), which gives you a short window to fire straight at him before he can move very far from the firing point. While his torp moves at ~50 knots, yours clips at over 200. Therefore if all goes to plan you kill him before he can kill you, which also kills the wire-guidance of his torpedo to make it easier to dodge. Other than that, the Shkval pretty much sucks. It has 1/4th the range of a regular torp, doesn’t home, cannot change course at all after it’s been fired, has a rather small warhead and is noisy as hell so forget about firing it all sneaky-like. And it’s still leagues slower than a missile, so pretty useless against surface ships. Bottomline: it’s a very, very niche knife-fight weapon. Apparently the Russians have improved upon it further (didn’t know that), but then I doubt they sold Iran their cutting edge stuff. As for harming merchant ships at extreme speeds, you realize frigates have _guns_ for that, right ? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/111 "2011-09-29T23:16:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Let’s look at this scenario for a moment. Iran detonates a nuclear weapon out at sea along the East Coast. Nobody dies. It does $10 trillion dollars of economic damage. They surrender. The religious council apologies profusely for their raving lunatic of a President. They turn The crazy man over to our legal system. He declares himself the 12th Imam who has come back to avenge the evil US and Israel. Can’t be more crazy than that. > > From our position we can’t punish an entire nation because of a crazy man. To radicals who believe in his cause he has brought a giant to it’s knees and it’s a sign of the prophesy and becomes a great recruiting tool. Or, the Iranian task force could land a small team of elite commandos on the East Coast, who could make their way to Washington, D.C., sneak into the White House using the hidden tunnels underneath the Potomac, then take the President and his family hostage and dictate whatever terms they wanted to the United States. (I saw how the could do this on [a documentary on TV](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_(season_7)).) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/112 "2011-09-29T23:25:42Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Or, the Iranian task force could land a small team of elite commandos on the East Coast, I seem to recall they caught the Germans who tried it at that point. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/113 "2011-09-29T23:48:09Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Or, the Iranian task force could land a small team of elite commandos on the East Coast, who could make their way to Washington, D.C., sneak into the White House using the hidden tunnels underneath the Potomac, then take the President and his family hostage and dictate whatever terms they wanted to the United States. (I saw how the could do this on [a documentary on TV](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_(season_7)).) Or they could charge (4) 400,000 fuel/air bombs to a visa card and use them to attack the Pentagon and a major US city causing a half trillion dollars of economic damage. I saw that on a TV documentary too. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/114 "2011-09-30T00:22:22Z")
Yes, the September 11 attacks mean _ANYTHING_ is possible! Sharks with frickin’ laser beams on their heads–man, we just don’t know! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/115 "2011-09-30T00:37:39Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Yes, the September 11 attacks mean _ANYTHING_ is possible! Sharks with frickin’ laser beams on their heads–man, we just don’t know! If you asked me the likelihood of the plot the day before I would have bet on the sharks with laser beams. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/116 "2011-09-30T01:04:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you asked me the likelihood of the plot the day before I would have bet on the sharks with laser beams. Before September 11, there were many fictional depictions of people using aircraft to carry out suicide attacks on buildings; “sharks with laser beams on their heads” was a deliberately absurd joke from a satirical movie. 1. Iran does not have nuclear weapons. 2. Even if we concede for the sake of argument that Iranian ballistic missiles have the capability of launching a nuclear warhead to the altitude needed to carry out a successful EMP attack, I know of nothing to indicate those missiles can be launched from Iranian frigates, or any other ship currently in the Iranian Navy. 3. _IRAN DOES NOT HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS._ 4. The “plot” discussed earlier in the thread doesn’t even make sense. They launch an attack on the United States with nuclear weapons (which, as mentioned, Iran does not possess), but we can’t do anything about it because they surrender before we can attack them?!? Oh, and they blame the whole thing on a guy which even Wikipedia knows [does not control the Iranian armed forces](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Iran) (including Iran’s nuclear program, which has not yet produced a single nuclear detonation). 5. And, finally, Iran does not have nuclear weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/117 "2011-09-30T01:11:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > And for the last ten years it’s been employed defending the United States from its enemies, at quite great cost in money and lives. You’re welcome! Extremely minor cost in both, actually. You spend 1.5% of your GDP on defense, we spend 4.7%, that’s three times as much. You’ve lost around 150 in Afghanistan, that is not militarily significant. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/118 "2011-09-30T01:14:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There’s this war in Afghanistan. We aren’t there because _we_ got attacked. You’re there because at one point in time your leadership felt it was in your strategic interests to be there. Further, it wasn’t just Americans that died in 9/11. It was in the interests of most of the Western world to take a strike at al-Qaeda, and entity which we then realized was a threat to all of us, not just the United States (and they have proven that with attacks on other Western countries before and after that day.) You Canadians are ridiculous, it’s like us throwing the vast protective shield we gave you throughout the Cold War back in your face. That would be stupid of us–that shield extended over Canada because we wanted it to and it was massively to our benefit, the fact that it also benefited Canada was why Canada is part of NORAD on their side of it, but we weren’t doing it out of the goodness of our heart anymore than you guys do anything out of the goodness of your heart. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/119 "2011-09-30T01:16:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, our contingent used to be bigger, until an American pilot killed some of our guys. > > [Back in 2002, it was.](http://articles.cnn.com/2002-04-18/world/afghanistan.canada_1_canadian-soldiers-canadian-military-officials-laser-guided-bomb?_s=PM:asiapcf) > > So I invite fewer idiotic remarks about my country and its military. I’d hope your manpower resources are enough to have replaced a few soldiers from 9 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/120 "2011-09-30T01:24:48Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > You Canadians are ridiculous, it’s like us throwing the vast protective shield we gave you throughout the Cold War back in your face. We were going to shoot down Russian bombers with [nuclear missiles](http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/yf12~1.htm) over Canada. I don’t see how they bought that. It was a damn cool airplane, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882.md?page=7)