# It appears Iran wants to park some ships off our east coast. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882 "2011-09-28T14:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/121 "2011-09-30T01:27:34Z")
Well, what’s wrong with a few nuclear tipped missiles between friends?? ;). Besides, we’d probably only kill a few stray caribou… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/122 "2011-09-30T01:32:49Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > 1. Iran does not have nuclear weapons. > > 2. _IRAN DOES NOT HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS._ > > 3. And, finally, Iran does not have nuclear weapons. yet. We know they’re driving hard to the net along with missile technology. We know the father of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons program is the mid-east Johnny Appleseed of such programs. If as everybody knows the President is a puppet then everything that comes out of his mouth comes from a puppeteer. Iran is driving a canoe half way around the world for a reason. We just don’t know what it is. What brought the scenario to mind was an article about one of their missile tests where they didn’t seem too concerned about accuracy. Of course I can’t find it but it reminded me of the pilots who didn’t want to learn how to land. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/123 "2011-09-30T01:38:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Iran is driving a canoe half way around the world for a reason. We just don’t know what it is. To look cool. To beard the great satan in his den. Maybe that should be, “unbeard” him… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/124 "2011-09-30T02:29:18Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’d hope your manpower resources are enough to have replaced a few soldiers from 9 years ago. They are, but we have fewer than we should through _your_ actions because we came to _your_ help. I can certainly understand not _knowing_ Canadian military capabilities (possibly mingled in with the mistaken belief that Operation Overlord was a wholly American undertaking), but the tone of mocking ignorance I’ve seen in this thread is misplaced and unbecoming. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/125 "2011-09-30T03:00:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > They are, but we have fewer than we should through _your_ actions because we came to _your_ help. I can certainly understand not _knowing_ Canadian military capabilities (possibly mingled in with the mistaken belief that Operation Overlord was a wholly American undertaking), but the tone of mocking ignorance I’ve seen in this thread is misplaced and unbecoming. Huh, that makes absolutely no sense. Are you really arguing the Canadian armed forces would be 4 people larger if not for that bombing incident? I very seriously doubt it. Canada joined in the operation for various reasons mostly relating to strategic alliances and national pride, it had nothing to do with anything else. Your stance here that Canada is somehow a significant help to us in Afghanistan is well, ludicrous. Your forces there are small and of minimal value. I have no lack of appreciation for them, nor do I fail to appreciate Canada is a smaller country than the United States. But strictly from a strategic perspective, you were not remotely necessary, so acting smug about it as you are is unbecoming. I don’t disagree with you that bashing the Canadian military sucks, I think Canada has a good military history. Where I get off is this response from the Canadians acting like you guys are our super saviors from the North saving our pussy bitch asses in Afghanistan which you had no vested interest in anyway and only got involved in to be a caped crusader helping Americans. Please, Canada went because Canada wants to be a part of the international community and that operation had vast international and NATO support. Operation Overlord is basically the same story: America appreciates the bravery of Canadians on Juno Beach. But strategically we could have done it without you, we had vast reserves of men who could have taken your place. I agree we should honor all the allied soldiers from all nations who participated in Operation Overlord, but in your desire to assert Canada’s rightful recognition don’t belittle the fact that while it wasn’t entirely American, it would not have happened without America, it could have happened without Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/126 "2011-09-30T03:06:15Z")
I’m not requesting you be grateful, just less ignorant. And feel free to pass that on to other Americans in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![medicated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@medicated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medicated)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/127 "2011-09-30T03:07:06Z")
Hoping to calm this down, I’d like to point out that Canadian troops have suffered a lot of casualties in Afghanistan. A truly disproportionate number. That this fact isn’t often understood in the US is something of a sore point here. Personally, I have two cousins who have served there, and I’ve watched the funeral convoys driving up that part of the 401 we’ve renamed the ‘highway of heroes’. Passions run high on this subject. At the very least, let’s take this to another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/128 "2011-09-30T03:20:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m not requesting you be grateful, just less ignorant. And feel free to pass that on to other Americans in the thread. I’m not the one making jokes about Canada not having a military. But I will object anytime a small country who has mostly been under the aegis of our massive military for decades, who spends far less than us per capita, who has less soldiers per capita, and who has done far less than us in Afghanistan to start acting like you’re more important than you are. I’m the last person to ever minimize the personal tragedy of losing a soldier, or the personal sacrifice of going to war. However I’m also someone who looks at things from the top down strategic view, that’s just part of the way I think about these things. Sadly while great generals loved their men they also had to objectify them and think of them as pieces on a board to make the tough decisions, and the numbers involved in Afghanistan are very small overall and the Canadians are a small part of the play. If you add up all allied deaths in Afghanistan it’s not even a single beachhead on D-Day in dead men, it’s less than the Battle of Gettysburg. The idea that we are talking about “great sacrifices” to me belittles the world. On a personal level of course it is a sacrifice. But when I think “great sacrifice” I’m thinking thousands of men dying in a single battle on a single day, trying to take the beaches at Normandy, or things of that nature. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/129 "2011-09-30T07:22:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yet. We know they’re driving hard to the net along with missile technology. We know the father of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons program is the mid-east Johnny Appleseed of such programs. We know the entire point of nuclear weapons is deterrence and dick waving (not necessarily in that order). If they had them, they’d shout it from the rooftops ; or at the very least engage in Israel-style “We’re not saying we have them, we’re not saying we haven’t. But really, we have them.” ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/130 "2011-09-30T07:53:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Let’s look at this scenario for a moment. Iran detonates a nuclear weapon out at sea along the East Coast. Nobody dies. It does $10 trillion dollars of economic damage. They surrender. The religious council apologies profusely for their raving lunatic of a President. They turn The crazy man over to our legal system. He declares himself the 12th Imam who has come back to avenge the evil US and Israel. Can’t be more crazy than that. > > From our position we can’t punish an entire nation because of a crazy man. To radicals who believe in his cause he has brought a giant to it’s knees and it’s a sign of the prophesy and becomes a great recruiting tool. That’s one hell of a scenario. Good for a movie. But I’m not biting. The Iranian president would not have the sole authority to launch the weapon. The country’s government is too factious to allow for that. But I will grant that Ahmadinejad is just the kind of politcian who would proclaim himself as the 12th iman if it could get him re-elected. And we’re going to strike within 2 to 6 hours of the attack by sea and air–nuclear and conventional. We’ve just suffered 10 trillion in damage remember? > [@Magiver](#): > > A conventional nuclear weapon is a fission bomb which is the first step in developing the technology. it is also more useful than a hydrogen enhanced bomb for the purposes of an EMP weapon. such a weapon does not require a sophisticated ballistic delivery system. It only has to go up. I’ve never heard the term _conventional nuclear weapon_ before. Per [Google](http://www.google.com/#hl=en&cp=32&gs_id=3&xhr=t&q=conventional+and+nuclear+weapons&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=off&site=&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=conventional+and+nuclear+weapons&aq=0v&aqi=g-v1&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=67161dd666abe379&biw=1900&bih=1112) and studying nuclear weapons policy for 30+ years as a hobby, AFAIK, conventional weapons denote chemical explosives rather than nuclear. Nuclear weapons are sub-divided into atomic (fission) and thermonuclear (fusion); but these are grossly general definitions. If you can find a cite by reputable source(s), be my guest. Why the inaccuracy of Iranian missiles? They have crappy guidance systems. I’ve not kept up with Iranian rocket technology in the last 3-4 years, but the last time I saw them launch a rocket they were using rocket vanes to vector the thrust (the V-2 used the same tech), rather than a steerable nozzle (like the Space Shuttle main engines). Don’t expect much in the near future. And the Canadian military kicks ass! Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/131 "2011-09-30T08:10:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Maybe Congress could issue Letters of Marque and see what happens. No longer allowed by international law. (You do NOT want to know how I know.) A shame really, if it were not prohibited, you know GE Maritime Warfare Services would have a darn fine navy. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/132 "2011-09-30T13:14:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m not requesting you be grateful, just less ignorant. And feel free to pass that on to other Americans in the thread. Are you guys still grumpy that we got Leslie Nielsen? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/133 "2011-09-30T13:29:22Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Are you guys still grumpy that we got Leslie Nielsen? Surely you can’t be serious? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/134 "2011-09-30T14:47:09Z")
> [@medicated](#): > > Passions run high on this subject. At the very least, let’s take this to another thread. Yeah, remember we’re waxing on the ludicrous notion Iran intends to create an impressive naval presence off our shared Atlantic coast. I sure hate to see feelings get hurt unnecessarily. In my mind the gentle ribbing was an indication the appreciation for support past and present is beyond reproach. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/135 "2011-09-30T19:27:17Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > Why the inaccuracy of Iranian missiles? They have crappy guidance systems. I’ve not kept up with Iranian rocket technology in the last 3-4 years, but the last time I saw them launch a rocket they were using rocket vanes to vector the thrust (the V-2 used the same tech), rather than a steerable nozzle (like the Space Shuttle main engines). Don’t expect much in the near future. > > And the Canadian military kicks ass! Just saying. I don’t have time to research it now but they are developing rockets without vanes. And also, go Canooks. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/136 "2011-09-30T20:03:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Let’s look at this scenario for a moment. Iran detonates a nuclear weapon out at sea along the East Coast. Nobody dies. It does $10 trillion dollars of economic damage. They surrender. The religious council apologies profusely for their raving lunatic of a President. They turn The crazy man over to our legal system. He declares himself the 12th Imam who has come back to avenge the evil US and Israel. Can’t be more crazy than that. > > From our position we can’t punish an entire nation because of a crazy man. And then it happens again the next week! Totally different crazy guy this time! You can have him, too! Our apologies! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/137 "2011-09-30T20:03:17Z")
Well, if Iran threatens to do it but doesn’t actually follow through, I guess they become the Westboro Baptist Church of the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/138 "2011-09-30T20:29:01Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > And then it happens again the next week! Totally different crazy guy this time! You can have him, too! Our apologies! We understand. Heck, crazies can happen anywhere. And we’re real sorry about those 2 crazy rednecks out in that North Dakota silo who launched all those nuclear missiles at you. We’ve already had them committed to a mental hospital. If they ever regain their sanity, we’ll extradite them to your country (what’s left of it). ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/139 "2011-09-30T20:39:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t have time to research it now but they are developing rockets without vanes. \ I’m not saying they won’t be able to build more sophisticated rockets, but Iran is forced to develop their rockets by indigenous means. It’s a lot slower because their technological infrastructure is far less robust and the international embargo impedes their ability to rapidly develop the technology. There’s also the espionage aspect for and against Iran. Western intelligence agencies are just as willing to sabotage and delay the program just as much as the nuclear one. Whatever the case; I don’t loose sleep over it \ ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882/140 "2011-10-03T16:16:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’s the biggest threat though, for a relative value of threat. Kilos are sneaky motherfuckers - even quieter than the ultra-modern Sea Wolves & Virginias of the USN. Even considering their need to come up for air once in a while, it would be pretty tough to actually catch one that didn’t want to be caught. Sure the Kilos are quiet boats, but does anyone really think that the Iranian crews are worth a crap and can actually keep them quiet? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-appears-iran-wants-to-park-some-ships-off-our-east-coast/597882.md?page=8)