# It Begins: Clarke goes public with allegations of terror mishandling **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681 "2004-03-22T04:26:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/141 "2004-03-26T14:04:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And yet, oddly enough, the folks there at the Center, googling as best they can, cannot find a single instance of either GeeDubya, Dick Cheney, or Condoleeza Rice so much as mentioning Al Queda or ObL prior to 9/11. > > Now isn’t that odd? Is this an example of partisan blindness, a refusal to recognize? Is it a lie, which can be so easily disproved? > > So…they have a contest going, for anybody who can find so much as one such reference. Just out of curiosity, assuming that **Sam Stone** was correct when he posted: > [@Sam Stone](#): > > Another thing Clarke says in his book which should set off the “this guy is a smear artist” alarms: He slanders Condi Rice, saying “I got the impression from watching her expression that she had never heard of al-Qaida before that meeting”. Which of course is ridiculous, and from what I hear the conservative radio jocks today have been having a grand time playing **an interview with Rice from 2000 in which she goes into the bin Laden/al-Qaida threat in detail.** [emphasis added] shouldn’t this contest be pretty easy to win? This is all making for very interesting reading. I’m not informed enough on the issue to contribute meaningfully, but I’m very happy to get informed by y’all. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/142 "2004-03-26T15:00:14Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Just out of curiosity, assuming that **Sam Stone** was correct when he posted: > > > [@Sam Stone](#): > > > > interview with Rice from 2000 in which she goes into the bin Laden/al-Qaida threat in detail. > > shouldn’t this contest be pretty easy to win? This is the entirety of the “detail” that I’ve been able to find: > [@](#): > > [Newsmax.com > Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:05 p.m. EST > Rice Quotes Contradict Clarke Account](http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/3/24/120740.shtml) > > Turns out Clarke was 100 percent wrong, as an audio clip unearthed by Fox News Channel’s Sean Hannity and aired on “Hannity & Colmes” last night shows. > > During an interview on Detroit radio station WJR the year before the Clarke briefing, Rice mentioned bin Laden by name, then recommended: “You really have to get the intelligence agencies better organized to deal with the terrorist threat to the United States itself. One of the problems that we have is a kind of split responsibility, of course, between the CIA and foreign intelligence and the FBI and domestic intelligence.” > > Then, in a chillingly prescient comment, Rice named bin Laden a second time, warning, “There needs to be better cooperation because we don’t want to wake up one day and find out that Osama bin Laden has been successful on our own territory.” > > Undoubtedly Mr. Clarke will be making his apologies to Dr. Rice when he testifies this afternoon before the 9/11 Commission. Al Qaeda who? Oh and yes, better cooperation. That’ll fix it. Shame she forgot to actually _do_ anything. Except, you know, actively _prevent_ the sort of cooperation that Clark says happened in December 1999 with the prevention of two domestic attacks by Al Qaeda. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/143 "2004-03-26T15:03:44Z")
Sure, **Desmo** , but I’m just narrowly addressing the contest here, which can be won by finding a single instance of Rice mentioning Bin Laden. Which she did. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/144 "2004-03-26T15:13:45Z")
Actually, I just went to the [contest home page](http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=6228), and I see a wee little detail that **elucidator** left out. It’s not to find a mention of ObL or Al Qaeda before 9/11; it’s to find such a mention between 1/1/01 and 9/11/01. Rice’s speech, given in 2000, doesn’t qualify. That seems reasonable to me, inasmuch as she didn’t give the speech while part of the administration. If we’re looking for evidence that the Administration cared about ObL, we oughtta see that they mentioned him while they had any power to do anything about him. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/145 "2004-03-26T15:14:50Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Sure, **Desmo** , but I’m just narrowly addressing the contest here, which can be won by finding a single instance of Rice mentioning Bin Laden. Which she did. > > Daniel If by “contest” you mean the one that **elucidator** linked to, it actually says: > [@](#): > > [CONTEST > Beat the Progress Report](http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=6228) > > Yesterday, on Hannity and Colmes, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice said “the assertion that somehow the Bush administration wasn’t paying attention when we came into office is just false.” But, despite Rice’s comments, we were unable to find a single instance where Rice, Vice President Cheney or President Bush said “al Qaeda” or “bin Laden” in public **between Bush Inauguration and 9/11.** ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/146 "2004-03-26T16:18:08Z")
Just as stated, I did, in fact, forget to mention the time frame imposed. As pointed out by the much esteemed _Talking Points Memo_, without which no citizen can hope to be informed, from yesterday’s _Crossfire_ > [@](#): > > ROBERT NOVAK: Do you believe that Dick Clarke has a problem with this African-American woman Condoleezza Rice? > > RAHM EMANUEL: No, no. Bob, give me a break. No. No. and further insight from the delightfully equine Ms Anne (Anne of Green Goebbels) Coulter, purveying more of her splendidly effective verbal ipecac… [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=108&ncid=742&e=9&u=/uclicktext/20040326/cm\_ucac/chairwarmeronthehotseat](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=108&ncid=742&e=9&u=/uclicktext/20040326/cm_ucac/chairwarmeronthehotseat) > [@](#): > > …Isn’t that just like a liberal? The chair-warmer describes Bush as a cowboy and Rumsfeld as his gunslinger – but the black chick is a dummy. Maybe even as dumb as Clarence Thomas. Perhaps someday liberals could map out the relative intelligence of various black government officials for us. … How low will they go? Whatta ya got? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/147 "2004-03-26T16:43:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Just as stated, I did, in fact, forget to mention the time frame imposed. No problem–I was just confused at first. > [@](#): > > How low will they go? Whatta ya got? How low can Coulter go? Surely this is limited only by her imagination and the libel laws. But thanks, I’m not sure I’d ever read a complete one of her columns before. I’m going to go soak my brain in bleah now. (That was supposed to say “bleach,” but I figured I’d leave the Freudian typo intact) Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/148 "2004-03-26T17:18:46Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Ann Coulter:_ > > \*\* Isn’t that just like a liberal? The chair-warmer describes Bush as a cowboy and Rumsfeld as his gunslinger – but the black chick is a dummy. Maybe even as dumb as Clarence Thomas. Perhaps someday liberals could map out the relative intelligence of various black government officials for us…\*\* What is she talking about? Clarke’s a died-in-the-wool, right-wing, conservative hawk. He voted for McCain in the _Republican primaries_ in 2000, fer cryin out loud. Really, the animal doctor should just put her out of her (and our) misery. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/149 "2004-03-26T17:32:15Z")
I suspect that Coulter calls him a liberal because she can’t quite get away with calling him a Commie. At this point, being surprised at her mendacity is like being shocked at Howard Stern’s crudeness. Why is anyone shocked at it? Like I say: if you’re still outraged, you’ve not been paying attention for very long. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/150 "2004-03-26T18:43:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > How low will they go? Whatta ya got? Coulter. Pfft. Kid stuff. [Here ya go:](http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/03/26/clarke/index.html) > [@](#): > > In a highly unusual move, key Republicans in Congress are seeking to declassify testimony that former White House terrorism adviser Richard Clarke gave in 2002 about the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attack, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said Friday > > Frist said the intent was to determine whether Clarke lied under oath — either in 2002 or this week — when he appeared before a bipartisan Sept. 11 commission and sharply criticized President Bush’s handling of the war on terror. Who needs Condi when you have both houses of Congress at your disposal? ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/151 "2004-03-26T18:54:49Z")
BTW at first blush Frist’s actions make all this hoo-hah about the White House’s claims to constitutionally separated _this_ and national security _that_ just so much fucking horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/152 "2004-03-26T19:29:47Z")
I’m just wondering if the Administration’s continued demonization of Richard Clarke is going to backfire on them – e.g., are they going to end up pissing off even more less-than-zealous conservatives, who end up getting disgusted at watching a lifelong Republican like Richard Clarke get reamed for daring to speak up? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/153 "2004-03-26T19:45:05Z")
> [@mack](#): > > BTW at first blush Frist’s actions make all this hoo-hah about the White House’s claims to constitutionally separated _this_ and national security _that_ just so much fucking horseshit. I don’t understand this at all. Why didn’t Frist use _normal channels_ and leak the documents to Robert Novak? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/154 "2004-03-26T20:24:00Z")
> [@mack](#): > > Who needs Condi when you have both houses of Congress at your disposal? Huh. Frist actually makes me wonder: I’m under the impression that he’s one of the noble opposition, one of the Republicans that, like John McCain or Richard Clarke, is respectable and honest even when putting forth policies I find deeply wrong. Is my impression wrong, or is he not really playing politics, or what’s going on here? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/155 "2004-03-26T20:42:03Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Huh. Frist actually makes me wonder: I’m under the impression that he’s one of the noble opposition, one of the Republicans that, like John McCain or Richard Clarke, is respectable and honest even when putting forth policies I find deeply wrong. Is my impression wrong, or is he not really playing politics, or what’s going on here? > > Daniel Yes, your impression is wrong. Frist is a hand-picked Bush bootlicker. The Rove machine topedoed Trent Lott to give Frist his job. I’m a Tennessean, and I’m ashamed to have Frist as my Senator. I vote against him every chance I get, and my constituent emails to him would curl your hair. In short, he sucks. But on this issue, I agree with him. Let’s declassify Clarke’s testimony. In fact, let’s declassify all of the secret testimony regarding terrorism and the Iraq war. Let’s put all the cards out on the table for everyone to see, including all of the lies that the Congress was told about the immenet threat from Iraq. Obviously, the White House’s warnings about “this classified information is vital to national security” were so much horse shit, since they can so blithely change their minds about the subject for political gain. Call their bluff–let’s see it all. And while we’re at it, let’s see Cheny’s notes from the energy commission meetings so we can avoid impunging Justice Scalia’s good name any more. The American people deserve to see all of this information so we can decide for ourselves who is lying and who is telling the truth. Drag it all out there, and then let slip the dogs of impeachment! ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/156 "2004-03-26T20:43:44Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I don’t understand this at all. Why didn’t Frist use _normal channels_ and leak the documents to Robert Novak? 😉 Pretty funny. > [@LHOD](#): > > …what’s going on here? I’m wondering that myself. Are they going to take a few inconsistencies and blow a bunch of their hot air into them and turn them into perjury? I think the GOP leadership has really turned a corner here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/157 "2004-03-26T20:56:24Z")
As regards Mr. Frist’s campaign for candor and full disclosure… A sharp-eyed correspondent over at Eschaton/Atrios brings forth two rather interesting links > **[Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines](https://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&e=3&u=%2Fap%2F20040326%2Fap_on_go_co%2Fclarke_congress)** > > The latest news and headlines from Yahoo! News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos. and > **[Breaking News, World News, US and Local News - NY Daily News - New York Daily...](https://www.nydailynews.com/)** > > Find breaking US news, local New York news coverage, sports, entertainment news, celebrity gossip, autos, videos and photos at nydailynews.com. They tell the same story, save that one has omitted a paragraph with some…rather odd…implications: “…Frist disclosed the effort to declassify Clarke’s testimony in remarks on the Senate floor, then talked with reporter. He said he personally didn’t know whether there were any discrepancies between Clarke’s two appearances…” We are given to understand that Mr. Frist’s eagerness to have this declassified and brought before the public is not motivated by Mr. Frist’s personal knowledge, or that he harbors any opinion as to whether or not it would be helpful to the WH’s case. It is possible, one must suppose, that it would be quite the opposite, but Mr. Frist is proceeding anyway, damn the torpedoes, bring on the candor and openess. Hmmmmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/158 "2004-03-26T21:07:40Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I’m just wondering if the Administration’s continued demonization of Richard Clarke is going to backfire on them – e.g., are they going to end up pissing off even more less-than-zealous conservatives, who end up getting disgusted at watching a lifelong Republican like Richard Clarke get reamed for daring to speak up? They don’t care - not with the hot fires of retribution in their souls and a campaign to run. It’s an embarassment, really, and in the end the administration is going to have more to answer for than Clarke will. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/159 "2004-03-26T21:36:17Z")
All the Bush Administration have to do is say something, “There are times in which we messed up. 9/11 was one of those times. However, we are undertaking steps to see to it that such an act won’t happen again.”, and the 9/11 panel would finish quietly. Now, with the second time they are bullying a former government employee with such a blistering attack they are doing, a conservative hawk at that, the administration left themselves vulnerable to an even more devastating broadside than that from Richard Clarke. Just wait until Cheney is called an ‘unindicted co-conspirator’ in the Enron scandal, based on his many meetings with Kenny Lay concerning with forming an Enron-friendly energy policy. That’s when it will really hit the fan. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681/160 "2004-03-26T22:05:09Z")
From your lips to God’s ear, **Cap** , but I doubt it. Over and over again, the Bushiviks have been shown to be fully mendacious. Is there anyone, anywhere who doubts that the Pubbies are the bestest buddies ever for Big Business moguls? You have been around the SDMB block a while, you know that the loyalty of the Usual Suspects surpasseth all understanding. Nothing short of GeeDubya’s being caught in bed with a dead woman or a live Boy Scout will cause the trajectory of the shit to intersect the locus of the fan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-begins-clarke-goes-public-with-allegations-of-terror-mishandling/235681.md?page=9)