# It couldn't be, could it? \[Republicans planning on economic failure\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952 "2011-06-26T23:08:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/1 "2011-06-26T23:08:04Z")
Are the Republicans actually banking on a collapsed U.S. economy in order to propel themselves into power in 2012? I mean, when you start voting down what would, in ANY other political climate, be traditionally popular REPUBLICAN legislation, how can an objective observer see it any other way? ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/2 "2011-06-26T23:22:05Z")
It certainly appears that this could be true ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/3 "2011-06-26T23:27:22Z")
> [@LH75](#): > > It certainly appears that this could be true The fact that people’s actual lives are at stake here, the wellbeing of millions, makes this notion APPALLING, to say the least. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/4 "2011-06-26T23:33:07Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Are the Republicans actually banking on a collapsed U.S. economy in order to propel themselves into power in 2012? Probably. They have zero concern for the welfare of the country. And for many years some have been pushing the idea that a general collapse of the government and the economy is desirable, since it would force a massive cutback in the Ultimate Evil of social programs since there’d be no money for them. “Starve the Beast”. From the viewpoint of the extremely wealthy such a collapse would be great; while they’d lose money in absolute terms, they’d have even more wealth and power relative to the general population. They like “labor discipline”, which is a euphemism for people being so desperate they’ll take up any job for almost any pay and put up with nearly any mistreatment. The worse off the economy the better, for those who look at money as a source of power. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/5 "2011-06-26T23:36:56Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Are the Republicans actually banking on a collapsed U.S. economy in order to propel themselves into power in 2012? I mean, when you start voting down what would, in ANY other political climate, be traditionally popular REPUBLICAN legislation, how can an objective observer see it any other way? What legislation are you referring to? Don’t be fooled by political theater, though. They know they are going to raise the debt limit. They’re just holding out for getting as much as they can from the other side before doing so. The Republicans have much better party discipline than the Democrats, so this tactic works a lot better for them. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/6 "2011-06-26T23:42:42Z")
Another thing that I’ve noticed is while Repblicans support pro-life policies, they are anti-welfare, so they are basically saying “You can have as many babies as God says you can have, but you will have to provide for them and for yourself.” By this logic, I can have 50 children, but I have to take care of them all. The Government will not, under any circumstance, provide any assistance. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/7 "2011-06-26T23:44:32Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Are the Republicans actually banking on a collapsed U.S. economy in order to propel themselves into power in 2012? [Starve the beast: Fiscal calamity is the GOP’s plan to shrink government](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10054/1037783-109.stm) > [@](#): > > But there is a kind of logic to the current Republican position: In effect, the party is doubling down on starve-the-beast. Depriving the government of revenue, it turns out, wasn’t enough to push politicians into dismantling the welfare state. So now the de facto strategy is to oppose any responsible action until we are in the midst of a fiscal catastrophe. You read it here first. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/8 "2011-06-26T23:49:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What legislation are you referring to? > > Don’t be fooled by political theater, though. They know they are going to raise the debt limit. They’re just holding out for getting as much as they can from the other side before doing so. The Republicans have much better party discipline than the Democrats, so this tactic works a lot better for them. Well the examples are myriad but how about the individual mandate in the health care bill? MANY republicans are on record in support of such legislation UNTIL Obama proposes it. Then it becomes OUTRAGEOUS SOCIALISM. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/9 "2011-06-26T23:53:37Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Well the examples are myriad but how about the individual mandate in the health care bill? MANY republicans are on record in support of such legislation UNTIL Obama proposes it. Then it becomes OUTRAGEOUS SOCIALISM. :rolleyes: What does that have to do with collapsing the economy? And, if you recall, Obama was originally against the individual mandate. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/10 "2011-06-27T00:55:45Z")
At what point does the GOP’s behavior cross over into treason? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/11 "2011-06-27T01:02:00Z")
Ah yes that’s why President Obama vowed not to raise the debt ceiling (calling it a failure of leadership on the part of President Bush) and now is demanding it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/12 "2011-06-27T01:02:53Z")
When they give aid and comfort to our enemies, or wage war against the United States. Plunging the country into another Great Depression, reprehensible though it may be, meets neither of those definitions. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/13 "2011-06-27T01:03:10Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > Another thing that I’ve noticed is while Repblicans support pro-life policies, they are anti-welfare, so they are basically saying “You can have as many babies as God says you can have, but you will have to provide for them and for yourself.” By this logic, I can have 50 children, but I have to take care of them all. The Government will not, under any circumstance, provide any assistance. That’s bullshit. Republican don’t oppose all welfare, they oppose excessive welfare by for instance people who can work but don’t due to welfare. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/14 "2011-06-27T01:03:43Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > At what point does the GOP’s behavior cross over into treason? [May 28, 1972](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_burglaries) ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/15 "2011-06-27T01:10:11Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > That’s bullshit. > > Republican don’t oppose all welfare, they oppose excessive welfare by for instance people who can work but don’t due to welfare. Yep they are all for corporate welfare. As to what we generally describe as welfare, in order to find Republicans in favor of it in any form you’ll need to time travel a bit. Republicans that believed in a hand up rather then a hand out are a thing of the past. Now it’s fuck the poor they deserve nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/16 "2011-06-27T01:23:15Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Yep they are all for corporate welfare. > > As to what we generally describe as welfare, in order to find Republicans in favor of it in any form you’ll need to time travel a bit. Republicans that believed in a hand up rather then a hand out are a thing of the past. Now it’s fuck the poor they deserve nothing. Please quote a more or less mainstream Republican who actually advocated that all welfare programs for the poor be cut off. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/17 "2011-06-27T01:43:58Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > That’s bullshit. > > Republican don’t oppose all welfare, _ **they oppose excessive welfare by for instance people who can work but don’t due to welfare** _. And it’s those people I really can’t stand, I have a friend whose layabout brother caused her to lose her house because while she worked, he sat around and collected welfare checks while playing on XBox Live, and when she finally got injured at work, she couldn’t collect disability, and her bank (Chase) didn’t keep accurate enough records, so she lost her whole house to her worthless brother and his 3 children who will likely become like him. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/18 "2011-06-27T02:20:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > When they give aid and comfort to our enemies, or wage war against the United States. Plunging the country into another Great Depression, reprehensible though it may be, meets neither of those definitions. There’s legally guilty of treason, and there’s morally guilty of treason. The legal definition is narrower because of the historic habit of treason accusations being used as a political club, but that makes the Republicans no less treasonous in a moral sense. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/19 "2011-06-27T02:27:40Z")
They are not traitors in any meaningful sense, they are patriots of CitiGroup and Exxon. Plus, of course, they have a sacred duty to their stockholders. The complex workings of the Free Market, blessings and peace be upon its Name, often demand that one set aside such parochial concerns as whether or not one is an “American”, as such. That sort of thinking is so 1944. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/20 "2011-06-27T02:35:29Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > At what point does the GOP’s behavior cross over into treason? Good point! Those with whom I disagree are not simply wrong or stupid - they are criminal. Imprison them. Hang them. Counter dissent with violence. I predict a bright future for this approach. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952.md?page=2)