# It couldn't be, could it? \[Republicans planning on economic failure\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952 "2011-06-26T23:08:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/41 "2011-06-27T13:07:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > SOP from the Left - borrow and spend based on fantasy, and demonize anyone who resists. > > _:shrugs:_ > > Regards, > Shodan Well, if that’s the level we’re going to bring this to, then, SOP from the Right - borrow, cut taxes, borrow, cut taxes more, start off-budget wars, spend like a drunken sailor, and demonize anyone who resists. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/42 "2011-06-27T13:17:08Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > The fact that people’s actual lives are at stake here, the wellbeing of millions, makes this notion APPALLING, to say the least. :eek: It’s okay. If it works out the way they want it, taxes for those with million dollar incomes will probably be able to be cancelled in perpetuity. And corporations will probably manage to get to the point of even more negative income tax rates. If that’s not worth screwing a few billion people I don’t know what is. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/43 "2011-06-27T13:20:19Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Well the examples are myriad but how about the individual mandate in the health care bill? MANY republicans are on record in support of such legislation UNTIL Obama proposes it. Then it becomes OUTRAGEOUS SOCIALISM. :rolleyes: > [@Bricker](#): > > Which Republicans are on record in support of that legislation, specifically?. > [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Uh, off the top of my head…Orrin Hatch Assuming you mean Hatch’s co-sponsorship of a bill in 1993, eighteen years ago, was this statement of yours honest? “MANY republicans are on record in support of such legislation UNTIL Obama proposes it.” That statement suggests a bit more recent turnaround time, doesn’t it? I mean, 18 years is enough time for a person to go from diapers to the voting booth. If Hatch changed his mind at some point over the 18 years between then and now, why should the assumption be he changed it based on Obama’s proposal? Nor is it particularly clear he favored it in 1993, except as the lesser-of-two-evils alternative to Clinton’s plan. “Politics is the art of the possible.” Fearful that Clinton’s more intrusive plan might pass, Hatch could have co-sponsored the plan he did not out of a belief that it was a good idea, but out of a belief it was a less terrible idea than Clinton’s. Yes? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/44 "2011-06-27T13:44:54Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > If that’s true, wouldn’t a winning strategy of the Democrats be to just say no to anything but a clean debt-ceiling bill? Or, insist upon revenue increases or they walk away? It seems to me that if everyone knows for sure that the debt ceiling will be raised, why would Obama and the Democrats even negotiate? Less party discipline, driven partly because there are a number of conservative Democrats who could easily lose their seats in the next election if they are seen as too “soft” on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/45 "2011-06-27T14:00:00Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Not really sure how her brother caused her to lose her house.. > > Sounds like it was the banks fault, not her brother, and her employer for not making accommedations for her injury. Also, letting this slug move in with her (unless they jointly inherited their house from their parents) was probably a mistake, too. I think we need more detail here. > > To the point, though, I think that it would be wonderful if we required welfare to be workfare. If you are otherwise able bodied, and you can’t find a job in the private sector, you show up at a government work office and you engage in a constructive activity. Painting over grafitti, cleaning litter off the streets, whatever. Well, if her brother had been employed, it might have helped her get the money to make the house payments, he lived there with her, after his crazy, drug-addicted ex-wife tried to kill him. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/46 "2011-06-27T14:33:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Less party discipline, driven partly because there are a number of conservative Democrats who could easily lose their seats in the next election if they are seen as too “soft” on this issue. Maybe, although Republican party discipline isn’t what it once was, with the rise of the Tea Party. However, Obama doesn’t need party discipline to threaten to veto any debt limit bill that has more than just raising the debt limit. He only has to have self-discipline. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/47 "2011-06-27T14:41:06Z")
Face it-everything Obama has done has left the economy in WORSE shape-no jobs (except government jobs) have been created, the states are bankrupt, and a second housing collapse is in the offing. It is naive to think that ANYTHING the Republicans could do, could make things worse. I expect Obama to be a one term presidency-he will leave Washington nder a cloud of scandal. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/48 "2011-06-27T14:44:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Largely because we spend so much more on entitlements than we do on the military. > > The US budget deficit in 2011 is projected to reach $1.65 trillion. ([Cite](http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/business/2011-06/11/c_13923084.htm), as if you needed one.) The entire amount that the US spends on the military (another unnecessary [cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Military_budget_and_total_US_federal_spending)), even if you include the entire budget of the State Department and FBI counter-terrorism activities and Energy Department expenditures related to the military and NASA, doesn’t reach that amount. > > SOP from the Left - borrow and spend based on fantasy, and demonize anyone who resists. > > _:shrugs:_ > > Regards, > Shodan Why not do both? I’m a lefty, and I’ve no issue with slashing entitlements fairly heavily provided we also make the same cuts to military spending. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/49 "2011-06-27T14:47:04Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It is naive to think that ANYTHING the Republicans could do, could make things worse. No, it’s naive to think that they couldn’t. They could, for example start another trillion+ dollar war in order to dig us deeper in debt, while lowering taxes on the wealthy even farther. The Democrats at least are not _deliberately_ trying to wreck the economy and the government. You can’t expect good government out of people who think that government is bad; they won’t even _try_ to do a good job. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/50 "2011-06-27T15:00:29Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Why not do both? I’m a lefty, and I’ve no issue with slashing entitlements fairly heavily provided we also make the same cuts to military spending. I read recently (here?) that the best thing Congress could do for the budget deficit is **nothing**. If they go home and play X-Box, the Bush tax cuts will expire and no additional special military funding will be made, and those two things will go a huge way toward fixing the budget deficit, much more than any proposal Congress is actually considering. When you can do your job best by doing nothing, it’s a sad day. (And yes, technically Congress needs to pass a budget–don’t let facts get in the way of a rhetorical flourish!) ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/51 "2011-06-27T15:02:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nor is it particularly clear he favored it in 1993, except as the lesser-of-two-evils alternative to Clinton’s plan. “Politics is the art of the possible.” Fearful that Clinton’s more intrusive plan might pass, Hatch could have co-sponsored the plan he did not out of a belief that it was a good idea, but out of a belief it was a less terrible idea than Clinton’s. > > Yes? It’s hard to imagine that someone would _co-sponsor_ a bill, not merely argue for or vote for a bill, if he didn’t think it were a reasonably good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/52 "2011-06-27T15:06:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I read recently (here?) that the best thing Congress could do for the budget deficit is **nothing**. If they go home and play X-Box, the Bush tax cuts will expire and no additional special military funding will be made, and those two things will go a huge way toward fixing the budget deficit, much more than any proposal Congress is actually considering. > > When you can do your job best by doing nothing, it’s a sad day. > > (And yes, technically Congress needs to pass a budget–don’t let facts get in the way of a rhetorical flourish!) Agreed if that’s true. Do you have a cite for that? I hadn’t heard about that. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/53 "2011-06-27T15:26:54Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > [May 28, 1972](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_burglaries) A little burglary? That’s not much. The only reason it was even a big deal was because they did it to someone with actual power. Try [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO). > [@Der Trihs](#): > > You can’t expect good government out of people who think that government is bad; they won’t even _try_ to do a good job. So they run for office for the lulz? I’m sure their benefactors think the government does a great job, as long as it has the proper interests at heart. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/54 "2011-06-27T15:32:58Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > Republicans can no longer claim to be pro-life. They are now doing their best to defund family planning clinics, and to discourage contraception, which will inevitably lead to more abortions. More bullshit. How are they discouraging contraception exactly? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, it’s naive to think that they couldn’t. They could, for example start another trillion+ dollar war in order to dig us deeper in debt, while lowering taxes on the wealthy even farther. The Democrats at least are not _deliberately_ trying to wreck the economy and the government. > > You can’t expect good government out of people who think that government is bad; they won’t even _try_ to do a good job. No they believe some government is necessary (otherwise they’d be anarchists). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/55 "2011-06-27T15:36:55Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > So they run for office for the lulz? They run for government to enrich themselves, and tear it down in the process. They deliberately do as bad a job as they can get away with, in hopes of creating as big a disaster as possible that they can blame on “government incompetence”. The Bush Administration did quite a big of that; their handling of Katrina being one example. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > No they believe some government is necessary (otherwise they’d be anarchists). The military and the police, since all they care about is hurting and controlling people. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/56 "2011-06-27T17:25:36Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > Another thing that I’ve noticed is while Repblicans support pro-life policies, they are anti-welfare, so they are basically saying “You can have as many babies as God says you can have, but you will have to provide for them and for yourself.” By this logic, I can have 50 children, but I have to take care of them all. The Government will not, under any circumstance, provide any assistance. Are you channeling George Carlin? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/57 "2011-06-27T17:29:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Ah yes that’s why President Obama vowed not to raise the debt ceiling (calling it a failure of leadership on the part of President Bush) and now is demanding it. Do you think those situations are even remotely analogous? In Obama’s case there were already enough votes to raise the debt ceiling. Obama’s vote was a protest vote rather than a vote to bring down the world financial system. He wasn’t using the debt ceiling as a negotiating chip. In the current case, the Republicans are in fact playing chicken with our economy and using the threat of financial collapse as a negotiating tool. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/58 "2011-06-27T17:32:30Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > That’s bullshit. > > Republican don’t oppose all welfare, they oppose excessive welfare by for instance people who can work but don’t due to welfare. I don’t know if you are in the US or not but in 1996 we passed the Welfare Reform Act of (wait for it) 1996. We don’t have excessive welfare and lifetime welfare benefits are limited to 60 months. So what is it about welfare is it that Republicans are opposed to these days other than the theorteical notion that we have too much welfare. Republicans have been peddling the welfare queen myth for decades and it never seems to get old. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/59 "2011-06-27T17:35:07Z")
> [@humanafterall](#): > > And it’s those people I really can’t stand, I have a friend whose layabout brother caused her to lose her house because while she worked, he sat around and collected welfare checks while playing on XBox Live, and when she finally got injured at work, she couldn’t collect disability, and her bank (Chase) didn’t keep accurate enough records, so she lost her whole house to her worthless brother and his 3 children who will likely become like him. What? Did her brother own the mortgage on the house or something? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/60 "2011-06-27T17:36:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Which Republicans are on record in support of that legislation, specifically?. The Republican senators in 1992. (Dole comes to mind). Mitt Romney. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952.md?page=4)