# It couldn't be, could it? \[Republicans planning on economic failure\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952 "2011-06-26T23:08:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/81 "2011-06-27T22:29:01Z")
They don’t plan on it, they expect it, they regard it as inevitable. Guess who’s fault it is? Of course, they don’t want to see suffering, but the American worker is wildly overpaid and pampered, spoiled by years of socialistic labor bosses throwing thier weight around. A corrective is inevitable, bound to happen. And that will be painful in the short term, but in the longer run it means that the working class will regain a sensible and prudent set of expectations. Those of us who think differently are not as hard-headed and realilstic as they are, don’t understand the cold equations of the Free Market, blessings and peace be upon its Name. And if they need to fib a little, here and there, maybe cut a corner or two, well, they are obliged to do so, if it will save their beloved country from the evils of Obamanation! Why, when you look at it from a realistic perspective, it is their _duty_ to do so! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/82 "2011-06-27T23:19:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They don’t plan on it, they expect it, they regard it as inevitable. Guess who’s fault it is? Obama’s ! Wait, that was a trick question, wasn’t it ? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/83 "2011-06-28T00:10:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The Democratic Party is “Leninist”? Well, I suppose, in much the same way that Barney Frank is exactly like Che Guevera. I don’t think you are using the same definition of Leninist strategy that I am. A Leninist strategy is when you increase public discontentment, suffering and misery so you can channel it into political goals you have. That is what the OP is describing (letting the economy fail so you can use the discontentment for political capital). But I think the democrats wishy/washy attitude about the Iraq war in 2007 and 2008 was also a leninist strategy, they didn’t want to stop the war in a meaningful way because they wanted to use it to win elections in 2008. My view is both parties engage in Leninist strategies. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/84 "2011-06-28T01:00:16Z")
Republicans know what they are doing. In 2012 Barack Obama and the Democratic Party will be evaluated by the unemployment rate. Nevertheless, Republicans in Congress are trying to reduce government spending and government employment. At worst that will increase the unemployment rate. At best it will interfere with job creation. Obama and the Democrats will also be evaluated by the size of the deficit. Republican efforts to oppose tax increases on the well to do, and if possible to cut their taxes will raise the deficit. Since 1980 the leaders of the Republican Party have been playing lower income white Republicans for suckers, and getting away with it. First Republican politicians say that tax cuts will generate prosperity. When those tax cuts generate budget deficits, they use those deficits to reduce domestic spending. Starving the public sector of the economy reinforces the suspicion by white working class Republicans that the government can’t do anything well. The GOP benefits when white blue collar workers think, “The Democrats never did me any good. At least the Republicans won’t take my guns.” Franklin Roosevelt would know how to out maneuver the Republicans on this, but Barack Obama seems stymied. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/85 "2011-06-28T01:05:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s a failure of your imagination, then. True, it does take quite a bit of imagination to reach the position you have taken. Pity that such a powerful imagination is indistinguishable from mere weaseling to us lesser minds. > [@Bricker](#): > > This position has, incidentally, been upheld by several federal courts. Your failure to mention that it has been laughed out of many more is, no doubt, merely an oversight on your part. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/86 "2011-06-28T01:33:01Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > More bullshit. How are [Republicans] discouraging contraception exactly? Mmmm, ignorance _and_ profanity. Keith Stone, you’re so smooth. Geez, read a paper once in a while. Coburn has been on a crusade against condoms for years. The Bush Admin pushed abstinence-only sex ed for years. McCain voted against requiring health insurance that covered prescription drugs to include birth control pills. Boehner’s first criticism of Obama’s stimulus bill was that it included funding for contraception. And on and on. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/87 "2011-06-28T01:55:38Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > This is just insulting. I’m therefore not inclined to debate this with you any further. It’s true that ol’ **Bricker** can be a mite testy. But only when he’s wrong! ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/88 "2011-06-28T02:03:18Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Ah yes that’s why President Obama vowed not to raise the debt ceiling (calling it a failure of leadership on the part of President Bush) and now is demanding it. He was against it before he was for it. Not because of politics mind you, no siree. The one side nature of this board is a joke. Where was the outrage when Obama decided that he didn’t want an open government after all. (just kidding! ha ha ) How about when the Dems had the chance to change the way the filibuster was used and punted. Please stop it with the Democrats are principled meme and the Republicans just play politics and don’t care for the poor. There are so many more examples but this is off topic and getting close to pit territory so I’ll stop. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/89 "2011-06-28T02:48:59Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Face it-everything Obama has done has left the economy in WORSE shape-no jobs (except government jobs) have been created, the states are bankrupt, and a second housing collapse is in the offing. > It is naive to think that ANYTHING the Republicans could do, could make things worse. > I expect Obama to be a one term presidency-he will leave Washington nder a cloud of scandal. > **[CHART OF THE DAY: It's Official: Obama Is Creaming Bush When It Comes To Jobs](https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-jobs-lost-in-the-bush-and-obama-administration-2010-2)** > > A revealing chart highlights jobs lost during the Bush and Obama administrations. Analyze the economic trends and implications. Let me see, what forum am I in? Ah, GD. Sir, methinks the facts are not as you would see them… ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/90 "2011-06-28T03:18:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s a failure of your imagination, then. So you admit you’re just making shit up then, and aren’t basing your assumptions on anything real. Just making things up in your imagination. So you just fill in the gaps of history and imagine this into reality? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/91 "2011-06-28T04:20:32Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > So you admit you’re just making shit up then, and aren’t basing your assumptions on anything real. Just making things up in your imagination. So you just fill in the gaps of history and imagine this into reality? “We make our own reality”, remember. The Right thinks that reality is something that they can just declare to be so. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/92 "2011-06-28T05:49:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Which Republicans are on record in support of that legislation, specifically?. [ [QUOTE=Health Equity and Access Reform Act of 1993] SEC. 1501. REQUIREMENT OF COVERAGE. ``` (a) IN GENERAL- Effective January 1, 2005, each individual who is a citizen or lawful permanent resident of the United States shall be covered under-- (1) a qualified health plan, or (2) an equivalent health care program (as defined in section 1601(7)). (b) EXCEPTION- Subsection (a) shall not apply in the case of an individual who is opposed for religious reasons to health plan coverage, including an individual who declines health plan coverage due to a reliance on healing using spiritual means through prayer alone. ``` [/QUOTE] ]([http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d103:S.1770:](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d103:S.1770:)) Cosponsors: Sen Bennett, Robert F. [UT] - 11/22/1993 Sen Bond, Christopher S. [MO] - 11/22/1993 Sen Boren, David L. [OK] - 5/17/1994 Sen Cohen, William S. [ME] - 11/22/1993 Sen Danforth, John C. [MO] - 11/22/1993 Sen Dole, Robert J. [KS] - 11/22/1993 Sen Domenici, Pete V. [NM] - 11/22/1993 Sen Durenberger, Dave [MN] - 11/22/1993 Sen Faircloth, Lauch [NC] - 11/22/1993 Sen Gorton, Slade [WA] - 11/22/1993 Sen Grassley, Chuck [IA] - 11/22/1993 Sen Hatch, Orrin G. [UT] - 11/22/1993 Sen Hatfield, Mark O. [OR] - 11/22/1993 Sen Kassebaum, Nancy Landon [KS] - 11/22/1993 Sen Kerrey, J. Robert [NE] - 5/17/1994 Sen Lugar, Richard G. [IN] - 11/22/1993 Sen Simpson, Alan K. [WY] - 11/22/1993 Sen Specter, Arlen [PA] - 11/22/1993 Sen Stevens, Ted [AK] - 11/22/1993 Sen Warner, John [VA] - 11/22/1993 Sen Brown, Hank [CO] - 11/22/1993(withdrawn - 10/4/1994) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/93 "2011-06-28T13:59:49Z")
Cyberhawk, didn’t you read? Despite evidence to the contrary, we’re supposed to use our imagination and come up with a path that leads these legislators to find this type of legislation evil. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/94 "2011-06-28T14:15:57Z")
And to remember what great shape the economy was in when Obama and the Dems inherited it from the Bushies…ah, golden days. Why, I can remember John McClain proudly proclaiming the strength of the economy during the election like it was yesterday… ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/95 "2011-06-28T14:18:04Z")
I know this has moved on, but the answer to the ‘moral’ failings of the GOP boils down to simple ‘betrayal’. It isn’t more complicated than that. The fact that they won’t play ball at all could be construed as ‘dereliction of duty’, but I don’t know if that can be applied to congresspeople. Criminally, I wonder if threatening to harm the US credit rating in order to drive up rates and then cash in while soaking the middle and lower classes could be considered ‘conspiracy to commit fraud’? It certainly would be fraudulent to manipulate things in this way, as from a hard-headed realist’s perspective the US at this point has no trouble meeting its obligations. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/96 "2011-06-29T00:10:55Z")
In the interests of equal time, Nate Silver’s opinion on the OP’s question is that [he doesn’t think so.](http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/on-the-claim-that-republicans-want-a-debt-default/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/97 "2011-06-29T00:58:04Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Romney’s explanation sounds a lot like an excuse. I never understood the opposition to the individual mandate to be based on principles of federalism. I don’t think it will buy him absolution. And yet that’s exactly the reason on which the multiple federal courts have rested their decisions declaring the individual mandate unconstitutional. So I’d say it’s your understanding that is lacking. That’s a widely argued position, validated by mutiple court rulings. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/98 "2011-06-29T01:00:03Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > This is just insulting. I’m therefore not inclined to debate this with you any further. That’s fine, but it was you that put your imagination – and its limits – into play. I don’t mean to be insulting, but if your imagination cannot capture a basic concept that has been widely publicized, perhaps the problem is not me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/99 "2011-06-29T01:09:16Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > So you admit you’re just making shit up then, and aren’t basing your assumptions on anything real. Just making things up in your imagination. So you just fill in the gaps of history and imagine this into reality? In a manner of speaking. The OP presents a set of facts and asks us to infer a motivation from them – saying, in effect, that the interpretation he urges is the only possible one to draw. To rebut that, it’s absolutely appropriate to propose other possible motivations. How else would someone rebut the allegations in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952/100 "2011-06-29T01:29:12Z")
Not a bit of it. Balderdash, etc. The OP offers what he regards as the most probable explanation. To support your premise, the OP would have had to catgorically state that this is the only possible explanation. Only in that instance would your rebuttal be dispositive. Pretty sure you already knew that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-couldnt-be-could-it-republicans-planning-on-economic-failure/586952.md?page=6)