# It doesn't matter that he was unarmed. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-doesnt-matter-that-he-was-unarmed/714599 "2015-03-09T14:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-doesnt-matter-that-he-was-unarmed/714599/21 "2015-03-10T15:54:46Z")
And if he looked like a sweet little kid in a picture taken years ago…well, that really doesn’t matter either. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-doesnt-matter-that-he-was-unarmed/714599/22 "2015-03-10T19:20:36Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Is someone–“a suspect”–who is in possession of a firearm more dangerous than someone–“a suspect”–who is not in possession of a firearm? Depends what each of them is doing during their interaction with the police. One suspect may possess a gun, but if it’s holstered, then he’s less dangerous than an unarmed suspect who is repeatedly slamming a cop’s head against the pavement with his bare hands. Point being that “he had a gun” does not automatically mean a shooting was justified, and “he was unarmed” does not automatically mean a shooting was unjustified. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-doesnt-matter-that-he-was-unarmed/714599/23 "2015-03-10T19:29:25Z")
I don’t know what the latest news on this story is, but I’ll tell you what came out first: The police were caled to reports of shooting in the street. One officer "heard a noise’ in a house he was passing by, and he entered the house. He shot the person in the house for reasons not now known. This turned out to be a young man in his family home. I don’t know how much of this is true or false, but it is certainly a terrible narrative and it is not at all surprising that people in the community got terribly upset by it. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-doesnt-matter-that-he-was-unarmed/714599/24 "2015-03-10T20:30:07Z")
[Here is an article from yesterday](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/09/court-documents-indicate-wisconsin-shooting-victim-suffered-from-adhd-anxiety/). It’s not looking good for the police-bashers: > [@](#): > > The unarmed black man who died at the hands of a white Wisconsin police officer suffered from attention deficit disorder and tended to be an impulsive risk-taker, court documents show. > > Documents connected to 19-year-old Tony Robinson’s conviction last year for armed robbery show he was diagnosed with ADHD, anxiety and depression, and was prone to boredom and anger. > > Madison Police Officer Matt Kenny shot Robinson on Friday night after responding to a call that Robinson was jumping in and out of traffic and had assaulted someone. Kenny broke into an apartment where Robinson had gone after hearing what police described as a “disturbance” and shot Robinson after police say he assaulted the officer. Based on this, the deceased sounds like the type of person who tends to do really dumb things without thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-doesnt-matter-that-he-was-unarmed/714599/25 "2015-03-11T23:33:23Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > [Here is an article from yesterday](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/09/court-documents-indicate-wisconsin-shooting-victim-suffered-from-adhd-anxiety/). It’s not looking good for the police-bashers: > Based on this, the deceased sounds like the type of person who tends to do really dumb things without thinking. Something strange about these stories. Numerous ones like the linked here read as if the police received complaint about this particular guy’s behavior. Others say the police didn’t, they received complaints about “a man” being disruptive. Not sure it makes a difference or not about the particulars of the shooting, but it may say a lot about the accuracy of the reporting. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-doesnt-matter-that-he-was-unarmed/714599/26 "2015-03-13T10:52:29Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I agree with the underlying sentiment of the OP, but I think you have overstated the case. When a cop kills a civilian, whether that civilian was unarmed or not is certainly not some magical sole determining relevant data point, where “unarmed” absolutely means that the cop was in the wrong. At the same time, it’s clearly RELEVANT. A cop killing an armed civilian has to clear a much lower bar of justification, purely speaking of my personal opinion of the incident. Agreed. It’s not the only factor but it is a relevant one. Even armed but with the weapon in a holster makes a difference; if a suspect moved his hands towards his waist the police would have a much more justifable expectation of violence if there was a gun or knife at the suspect’s waist than if there was obviously no weapon. Also, if the victim is unarmed, that makes it more feasible for the cop to use a taser rather than a gun. It is possible to kill with your bare hands, but not so much if you’ve been tasered. You could still shoot at someone if you had been tasered, though, and maybe the tasering would even cause you to pull the trigger, so shooting someone holding a gun could be argued to be more sensible than tasering them. Them holding a weapon or not makes a difference to what weapon you use against them. Additionally, if the suspect wasn’t armed, and the cop was, then there’s a lot more chance for the cop to get out of the house (or even just the room) and call for back-up without fearing that the suspect was liable to hurt someone else or shoot his way through the door or something. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-doesnt-matter-that-he-was-unarmed/714599/27 "2015-03-13T11:39:35Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > … I don’t care if he was unarmed; I want to know what he was doing or not doing at the time of the shooting, and whether it was something that would make the officer reasonably fear for his own life. [my underlining] I’d like a definition for “reasonably fear” and a cite that such is legally required. What if the cop is truly in fear, even if the fear might appear unreasonable after long and careful review by a reasonable man? Moreoever I don’t think that the fear, reasonable or not, is restricted to fear of personal loss of life. The oifficer need only fear ‘grievous bodily harm’ come to him or a citizen, no? I’ll ask the lawyers to expound on the numerous circumstances, state by state, where cops can and should shoot unarmed civilians. And speaking of these courageous LEOs: one hears soldiers despondent about an enemy they killed in battle – why do cops seem instead almost to gloat when they kill “suspects”, especially blacks? So yes, in America the cops’ motto is _‘To Protect and to Serve’_, but when a troubled soul, armed only with a small knife or his own bare hands, poses a threat – a risk that cop might stub his toe, for example – he should be shot. And certainly not just disabling shots to each kneecap; the cop is trained to discharge all his loaded ammunition into the center of suspect’s mass. Merciful cops will save a bullet for a coup-de-grâce shot to the head. This is better than just draping out CSI tape without calling an ambulance. (Why should cops be expected to inconvenience themselves making a phone call for a (probably ethnic) suspected felon?) > [@Sitnam](#): > > So the choices are ‘Disarm police’ or ‘exonerate officers who shoot anyone’. > > Hmm, tough choice, are you sure those are the only options? 😕 Of course. We’re talking about _America_ for Og’s sake; where are you from? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-doesnt-matter-that-he-was-unarmed/714599.md?page=1)