# It has always been this: Conservatives believe they have the right to kill everyone else **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749 "2020-09-28T15:28:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/61 "2020-09-30T06:03:30Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’m honestly curious what people think American conservatism is about if it’s not about violence and white rage. Well, I believe a large fraction of the RW are not actually violent/murderous. But it kind of plays like the bad apple syndrome, analogous to the LEOs situation. We see evidence in the victim blaming (oh, they were bad people, they had records) to justify killings. What I mean is, probably most RWers are not actually violent, but they do not denounce the ones who are. It seems like they do not approve of violence by other RWers but will say nothing because, you know, it must have been necessary. Enablers. You do not have to be violent to countenance it, even tacitly, but in doing so you promote it. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/62 "2020-09-30T06:40:01Z")
In terms of the appetite some people show for killing their fellow humans, I think these gentlemen and gentlewomen represent in fact a small percentage of the general population and if they choose to become active politically they are more likely to adhere to fascist-like political groups. What I mean is that, if there are conservative fellows who would really like to physically eliminate their rivals, their homicide tendencies should be accounted for through other causes than their political affiliation. Being an aggressive conservative may be a symptom of one’s murderous propensities, not a cause. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/63 "2020-09-30T08:51:51Z")
Trump called for the violent far-right Proud Boys to “[stand back and stand by](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/national-international/proud-boys-celebrate-after-trumps-debate-call-out/2203791/)” during yesterday’s debate. Nothing to see here… ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/64 "2020-09-30T11:11:57Z")
Ok, then what is it about? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/65 "2020-09-30T15:01:25Z")
Fear, mostly. Jealousy. Making _those people_ toe the line. America-fuck-yeah (but watch your mouth in front of the ladies and children). Get outta my way. Loudness. And a third thing, that escapes me. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/66 "2020-09-30T15:04:23Z")
That’s pretty much what I said, it’s about white rage. I think that is violence is an important element of that rage. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/67 "2020-09-30T15:05:57Z")
white rage is the sundae and violence is the bright red maraschino ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/68 "2020-10-03T17:28:24Z")
"Is the white community in the South entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not predominate numerically? The sobering answer is Yes, the White community is so entitled because for the time being, it is the advanced race.” William F Buckley ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/69 "2020-10-03T17:33:36Z")
And lest anyone think that the above might be taken out of context, you can read more of Buckley’s speech here: > **[National Review Is Trying to Rewrite Its Own Racist History](https://theintercept.com/2020/07/05/national-review-william-buckley-racism/)** > > The magazine invested extraordinary amounts of time and resources into building an intellectual edifice for segregation. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/70 "2020-10-03T17:41:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Rather, in each of these instances mentioned in the article, the conservatives in questions felt they were doing so with justified circumstances (i.e., protesters blocking the car’s right of way, or Kyle feeling threatened, etc.) Whether that was justified action or not is another debate. But in no circumstance have conservatives said "We deserve a blank check when it comes to killing people _simply for not being conservative."_ No, actually, that’s not another debate. That’s this debate. Part and parcel of conservative violence is fluffing up the perceived threat WAY out of proportion so that they can kill people. You named a prime example here. Kyle Rittenhouse never needed to be anywhere near the protests, not even in the same state. But when a conservative invokes the magical words “I feel threatened”, he was suddenly justified in hopping on a plane with his gun (however that works), and traveling across state lines to take potshots at protesters “in his own defense”, 2-3 states away. Compare this to religious nuts who get enraged because you hurt God’s feelings (Biden is going to [kill God and hurt the Bible](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/510900-trump-claims-biden-is-against-god), according to Trump. Or want to do violence because you hurt the flag. Or because you insulted their politicians, or question their version of the constitution. The justification isn’t out of bounds here. Conservatives absolutely _depend_ on flimsy trumped-up justifications for violence. They depend on us not talking about how they pump themselves up to go kill other people. It’s absolutely appropriate to call this out. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/71 "2020-10-03T17:52:25Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > The only difference is that you _say_ you don’t want to kill them, and by your rhetoric, you say they can’t be fixed, so what is your only rational option? Kill them Ascenray never said anything remotely close to violence. What you’re doing here is exactly what conservatives do… take a benign statement, stretch it way out to what you think it MIGHT mean, and conclude that they are “THE REAL KILLERS”. They invent a fantasy of contingent situations that would require them to kill us, pretend that it’s as real as physical reality, and then go out with loaded weapons looking for an excuse to kill. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/72 "2020-10-03T18:00:56Z")
At this point, I don’t know if conservatives can help it. They’ve been so conditioned to see the out-group as the enemy, and have accepted the dehumanization propaganda that goes along with it, that any disagreement with them become a mortal threat that needs to be met with violence. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/73 "2020-10-03T18:05:18Z")
Yes. And the enlightened centrists are aiding and abetting by saying “welllll, maybe they have a point.” No. They don’t. When there are two poles, and the south pole decides to relocate itself into a sewer, we do not say “The North Pole must take its half of responsibility for this polarization”, we look at which party decided to dive into the shithole. That’s what critical thinking is all about. It is not looking at a conflict and assuming that there must automatically be fault on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/74 "2020-10-03T19:16:10Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Kyle Rittenhouse never needed to be anywhere near the protests, not even in the same state. But when a conservative invokes the magical words “I feel threatened”, he was suddenly justified in hopping on a plane with his gun (however that works), and traveling across state lines to take potshots at protesters “in his own defense”, 2-3 states away. No, Kyle’s mom drove him to Kenosha from where they lived, in Antioch. About 20 miles away. This story is loaded with bushels of bullshit. But, yes, he went there to “protect businesses”, which, curiously, are more valuable than people’s lives. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/75 "2020-10-03T19:26:21Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > No, Kyle’s mom drove him to Kenosha from where they lived, in Antioch. About 20 miles away. This story is loaded with bushels of bullshit. But, yes, he went there to “protect businesses”, which, curiously, are more valuable than people’s lives. OK, he traveled 20 miles. The point does stand that he wasn’t threatened until he chose to put himself in harm’s way. The other point, of course, is that here’s another flimsy rationale for killing people. I am not personally in danger, and my business is covered by insurance. But I really want a reason to shoot people, so I have to go protect my poor terrified “business” from trauma. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/76 "2020-10-03T20:05:04Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Ascenray never said anything remotely close to violence. What you’re doing here is exactly what conservatives do… take a benign statement, stretch it way out to what you think it MIGHT mean, Are you are doing the same to my quote - the very next line was ‘Disenfranchise them?’. I was correctly pointing out that Ascenray made a blanket description of conservatives and said every single one is a killer by attitude and in potentia, a FAR GREATER assumption that what I made about his statements. And I was, perhaps flippantly, saying, that if that is the case what are you going to do - what is your solution, because he sure doesn’t seem to think education is going to fix the problem. And then you of course, selectively quote my comment to stop on killing, and ignore the disenfranchise comment, nor do you address his blanket condemnation, or the circumstance under which I’m expressing my concern. So, please, considering this is GD and not the pit, please keep your comments factual, because if anyone here is > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > pretend that it’s as real as physical reality, and then go out with loaded weapons looking for an excuse It’s you. Again, I’ve selectively quoted you. But you are imagining that every single conservative is looking for an excuse. Do you see the fact that both you and Ascenray are tarring yourselves with the same brush of absolutism and intolerance? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/77 "2020-10-03T20:07:53Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The other point, of course, is that here’s another flimsy rationale for killing people. I am not personally in danger, and my business is covered by insurance. But I really want a reason to shoot people, so I have to go protect my poor terrified “business” from trauma. Except, of course, Rittenhouse had no business interests in Kenosha, so, if he was protecting businesses, he was protecting someone else’s businesses. It is all but exactly like the Bundy/Finicum fiasco in Harney County – there were people from Oregon amongst the occupiers, but no one from the local area. But they perceived an injustice, so they flocked there, uninvited, to make everything worse and put their own stupidity on display. The alt-right stirs up tales of “Antifas being brought in by the busload” because that is a tactic they can understand. The kind of thing they would do. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/78 "2020-10-03T20:14:10Z")
Missed by edit window for my second part - To put it in comparison to a current event, I’m asking Ascenray to disavow all white supremacists, and he keeps dodging. I am NOT saying ‘there are good people on both sides’ since I don’t think there is a good side for the white-ultranationalists, but I am saying ‘conservative’ is a hugely broad definition. If you tell me, on the other hand, that all White supremacists believe that they have the right to kill everyone else, I am going to nod and agree. See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/79 "2020-10-03T20:16:31Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I was correctly pointing out that Ascenray made a blanket description of conservatives and said every single one is a killer by attitude and in potentia, a FAR GREATER assumption that what I made about his statements Could you kindly quote the party where Ascenray said “every single one is a killer by attitude and in potentia”? You cannot, because he didn’t say that. In fact you’re doing exactly what I described, taking something someone said and arguing with some panicked version of what they “might” have meant, paraphrased. > [@ParallelLines](#): > > But you are imagining that every single conservative is looking for an excuse. Do you see the fact that both you and Ascenray are tarring yourselves with the same brush of absolutism and intolerance? Neither of us stated that every single conservative is looking for an excuse, so you can climb down off the cross and dial your hair trigger down a notch. No, I’m not going to quantify it as one conservative or ten conservatives or half of the counservatives. It’s a habit endemic to conservatives, you can judge for yourself exactly what the proportion is. You need to be aware that “you have become the thing you hate” and “not ALL men /conservatives/whatever” is the oldest tiredest cliche in the book right now, a lazy deflection that excuses you from engaging the actual physical facts of what people are doing and saying. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749/80 "2020-10-03T20:18:59Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It is all but exactly like the Bundy/Finicum fiasco in Harney County – there were people from Oregon amongst the occupiers, but no one from the local area. But they perceived an injustice, so they flocked there, uninvited, to make everything worse and put their own stupidity on display. > > The alt-right stirs up tales of “Antifas being brought in by the busload” because that is a tactic they can understand. The kind of thing they would do. Exactly. Projection. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-has-always-been-this-conservatives-believe-they-have-the-right-to-kill-everyone-else/921749.md?page=5)