# It is impossible to be a Christian that accepts the theory of evolution **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 13, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044 "2009-01-13T04:53:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![wsbenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@wsbenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wsbenge)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/181 "2009-01-17T02:55:17Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > But I don’t understand God’s plan (as they state, everything is as god wills it) when the innocent suffer. Why do babies drown in floods? What purpose did that serve? That is a whole different topic. Why our messed up life? It seems to be about choices made, not about who lives how long. I have a suspicion souls are not created with the combination of egg and sperm. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/182 "2009-01-17T15:11:08Z")
> [@wsbenge](#): > > Human beings are dirt, and water, somewhat modified. The rib is genetic engineering in motion, wouldn’t one think? > > Language translation is always messy. The whole point of Genesis is why we are a mess. :rolleyes: Well, I suppose if you twist and manipulate the words of any Bible verse, you could easily get any message (or [prophecy](http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Code-Michael-Drosnin/dp/0684849739/)) you want from it. And I don’t care how messy the translation gets, one cannot interpret the book of Genesis as coming to mean God had any involvement in evolution (especially since people had no flippin’ clue back then about evolution). It states, as plain as day, that God created animals and humans (on _days_, not thousands or millions of years). Tell me which is more likely: that God guided evolution and those that wrote the Bible knew this and wrote the creation story in a cryptic code that no one would figure out for thousands of years… Or, that people 2,000 years ago didn’t know jack about science or evolution and wanted to know their origins, so they wrote cute, quaint parables and stories to explain where they came from that wrapped everything in the world up in a week. Occam’s razor would agree with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/183 "2009-01-17T18:48:52Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Tell me which is more likely: that God guided evolution and those that wrote the Bible knew this and wrote the creation story in a cryptic code that no one would figure out for thousands of years… Or, that people 2,000 years ago didn’t know jack about science or evolution and wanted to know their origins, so they wrote cute, quaint parables and stories to explain where they came from that wrapped everything in the world up in a week. Occam’s razor would agree with the latter. I don’t think any Christian would argue that the author or authors of Genesis were likely unaware with modern scientific theory. It was never suggested to me, educated in Catholic schools, that Genesis was the literal truth, or even the literal truth in some sort of code. Some Christians do believe it’s the literal truth (which I find absurd given that it has two contradictory accounts) but the OP doesn’t say “fundamentalist, literal-interpretation-of-the-Bible Christian.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/184 "2009-01-17T19:12:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I don’t think any Christian would argue that the author or authors of Genesis were likely unaware with modern scientific theory. I think many fundamentalist Christians would disagree. Those who hold the Bible to be inerrant also tend to believe that “inspired by God” equals “dictated by God,” and that the putative authors were but steographers; God, being God, is omnisicent and thus is intimately familiar with science, even when science is wrong (in the fundamentalists’ view, that is). ---
**Author:** ![wsbenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@wsbenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wsbenge)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/185 "2009-01-18T00:39:35Z")
[QUOTE=BrandonR;10706128And I don’t care how messy the translation gets, one cannot interpret the book of Genesis as coming to mean God had any involvement in evolution (especially since people had no flippin’ clue back then about evolution). It states, as plain as day, that God created animals and humans (on _days_, not thousands or millions of years). [QUOTE] So right. People had no flippin’ clue. Didn’t matter. 🙂 The time period really isn’t important, in Genesis. The important part is “God made”. The details are interesting, but not the key point of Genesis. Genetics stands alone, as a scientific examination. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/186 "2009-01-18T01:14:37Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think many fundamentalist Christians would disagree. I would think even most funamentalist Christians, at least those who aren’t tards, know Moses (usually, traditionally ascribed authorship of the Pentateuch) preceded Sir Isaac Newton. If you go by the “Holy stenographer” line of thinking, it doesn’t matter if they knew anything about science, right? They weren’t really the authors anyway. I acknowledge there are Biblical literalists and that I believe their beliefs are absurd. ---
**Author:** ![wsbenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@wsbenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wsbenge)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/187 "2009-01-18T15:12:22Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I thought of a way to kind of test for theistic evolution. > > Now, if God were intervening, wouldn’t we expect a much higher useful mutation rate? Unfortunately, the human body is a dsyfuntional piece of junk. I suspect INTENDED to be a piece of junk, with a short life span. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/188 "2009-01-18T16:05:10Z")
> [@wsbenge](#): > > So right. People had no flippin’ clue. Didn’t matter. 🙂 > > The time period really isn’t important, in Genesis. The important part is “God made”. The details are interesting, but not the key point of Genesis. > > Genetics stands alone, as a scientific examination. I see. So now that you accept that parts of Genesis are ludicrous and inconsistent with what modern science tells us, you’re saying those parts aren’t important. Do you need one of [these](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cherrypicker.jpg) while you’re at it to help in your endeavor? And regardless of what Genesis states, evolution very clearly shows that a human’s rise to being (along with everything else) came from a very slow process over millions of years. Humans did not magically appear from thin air, neither did the oceans or the mountains or any other living being. Genesis got it **wrong**. But given what information was available to the people who wrote the cute stories that make up Genesis, it’s not that bad for entertainment values. Your last statement is also quite bewildering. Care to expand on what exactly it is that you’re talking about? ---
**Author:** ![wsbenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@wsbenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wsbenge)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/189 "2009-01-18T21:09:08Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Do you need one of [these](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cherrypicker.jpg) while you’re at it to help in your endeavor? > > Your last statement is also quite bewildering. Care to expand on what exactly it is that you’re talking about? You are going to use Genesis as a treatise on HOW God made mankind? OK. I see why you use cherry pickers. You have no idea why genetic combinations will naturally select certain individuals of a population to successfully reproduce, at the expense of others? You have no idea why farmers choose which animals to eat, and which to keep for breeding stock? Not that it matters much, in the scope of life. I still think it is a useless argument about WHO vs. HOW. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/190 "2009-01-19T01:51:57Z")
> [@wsbenge](#): > > You are going to use Genesis as a treatise on HOW God made mankind? OK. I see why you use cherry pickers. > > You have no idea why genetic combinations will naturally select certain individuals of a population to successfully reproduce, at the expense of others? > > You have no idea why farmers choose which animals to eat, and which to keep for breeding stock? > > Not that it matters much, in the scope of life. I still think it is a useless argument about WHO vs. HOW. I’m failing to see how these have anything to do with your position that God exists and he caused evolution. ---
**Author:** ![wsbenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@wsbenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wsbenge)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/191 "2009-01-19T21:41:30Z")
I see. Let me try again. Genesis has nothing to do with HOW God made man. Just says He did. Evolution is a conclusion drawn from the study of genetics, and closed populations. Genesis and the theory of evolution are not adverse. They are philosophy vs. biology. Not on the same page. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/192 "2009-01-20T03:57:10Z")
> [@wsbenge](#): > > I see. Let me try again. Genesis has nothing to do with HOW God made man. Just says He did. It says how He did it also. > [@wsbenge](#): > > Genesis and the theory of evolution are not adverse. Of course they are. Even if you call Adam coming from dirt and Eve coming from his rib analogies, the order of creation (in both Genesis accounts) get it wrong. > [@wsbenge](#): > > They are philosophy vs. biology. Not on the same page. Not on the same page at all since Genesis is factually incorrect. Genesis is much more mythical history than philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![wsbenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@wsbenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wsbenge)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/193 "2009-01-20T11:58:13Z")
Excuse me for being dense. You are trying to say that human beings are separate from the process of evolution, and have nothing to do with it. You are not saying that genetic evolution is impossible. You also have no idea HOW God made man, you just say mankind is a separate creation from how God made the rest of biology. Yet another case of apples and oranges. Why didn’t you just say magic was used? ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2009, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044/194 "2009-01-20T14:40:27Z")
> [@wsbenge](#): > > Excuse me for being dense. Okay. > [@wsbenge](#): > > You are trying to say that human beings are separate from the process of evolution, and have nothing to do with it. I am? Where? > [@wsbenge](#): > > You are not saying that genetic evolution is impossible. Of course not. 😕 > [@wsbenge](#): > > You also have no idea HOW God made man, you just say mankind is a separate creation from how God made the rest of biology. Yet another case of apples and oranges. I didn’t mention mankind being a separate creation. What are you talking about? > [@wsbenge](#): > > Why didn’t you just say magic was used? Because I was specifically addressing some statements of yours and I found no need to bring that up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-impossible-to-be-a-christian-that-accepts-the-theory-of-evolution/481044.md?page=9)