# It is not 'ax' its 'ask' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931 "2004-07-13T18:10:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/41 "2004-07-13T23:49:57Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > There is one pronunciation, however, for which i have a complete, unabiding, and totally irrational hatred: the North American pronunciation of the word “herb.” > > As Eddie Izzard says: “There’s a fucking ‘h’ in it!!!” 🙂 Then we should all honor Eddie’s wish. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/42 "2004-07-13T23:53:04Z")
It makes me cringe, but I realize that it’s because of where the folks that do it grow up. Their parents say it that way, and so they grow up thinkng that’s proper. My mom, for some reason, even though she’s not from the south, adds an R to “ash” words. Warshcloth, Warshington. I did the same thing until someone teased me about it in 5th or 6th grade. I had to really concentrate on saying it properly. If it’s done because the person is young, or doesn’t know better, it’s cringeworthy, but understandable. Once a person gets out into the workaday world, and is STILL doing it, IMHO, it’s laziness and carelessness. I don’t consider accents, such as a southern or french accent the same thing as purposeful mispronunciation of a word. For instance IN the case of ask, or warsh. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/43 "2004-07-13T23:54:17Z")
> [@Burnt Sugar](#): > > That is not how I was taught in English class. It may be different in America, but in Australia, saying “Tiger Woods’ seven-iron” is one hundred percent correct. Just so you know. What we seem to have here is a difference in usage between the United States and the Commonwealth. _A Dictionary of Modern American Usage_, by Bryan Garner, agrees with **RickJay** : > [@](#): > > To form a singular possessive, add _-'s_ to most singular nouns–even those ending in _-s_ and _-x_ (hence _witness’s, Vitex’s, Jones’s, Nichols’s_). > > (p. 509) The most recent edition of _Fowler’s Modern English Usage_, however, gives a little more latitude. > [@](#): > > It is customary, however, to omit the _'s_ when the last syllable of the name is pronounced /IZ/, as in _Bridges’, Moses’. Jesus’_ is an acceptable liturgical archaism. > > (p. 61) It seems that “Woods” might fall under the exception listed in _Fowler’s_. Note: I can’t give links, as these quotes were taken straight out of my own copies of the books. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/44 "2004-07-14T00:01:41Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > There is one pronunciation, however, for which i have a complete, unabiding, and totally irrational hatred: the North American pronunciation of the word “herb.” > > As Eddie Izzard says: “There’s a fucking ‘h’ in it!!!” 🙂 I’m guilty of dropping the “h”, I admit it. My grandfather was from England and I guess my dad took on some of his (grandfather’s) pronunciations, because my dad always _insisted_ on pronouncing the “h” in herb. He’d say with great determination, “_ **H** _erb! _ **H** _erb!” and we’d all rag him about it. 😉 Regarding the OP: Yes, “ax” sounds bizarre to me as well, but I’ve simply come to the conclusion that it is a regional accent thing, and nothing more. A friend of mine, from the South, is a very smart fellow and he sometimes pronounces it that way. It doesn’t make him any less smart. So just get over it. I have to tolerate people all around me calling it “pop” instead of “soft drink” (which is its **GOD-GIVEN NAME** ) ::twitch twitch:: and I tolerate this, day in and day out, without popping a cork (excuse the pun), so you can suck it up and take it when people say “ax” instead of “ask.” ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/45 "2004-07-14T00:02:48Z")
Ax drives me nuts. Also when someone says “ideal” when they’re wanting to say “idea.” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/46 "2004-07-14T00:14:47Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > It makes me cringe, but I realize that it’s because of where the folks that do it grow up. Their parents say it that way, and so they grow up thinkng that’s proper. > > My mom, for some reason, even though she’s not from the south, adds an R to “ash” words. Warshcloth, Warshington. I did the same thing until someone teased me about it in 5th or 6th grade. I had to really concentrate on saying it properly. > > If it’s done because the person is young, or doesn’t know better, it’s cringeworthy, but understandable. Once a person gets out into the workaday world, and is STILL doing it, IMHO, it’s laziness and carelessness. > > I don’t consider accents, such as a southern or french accent the same thing as purposeful mispronunciation of a word. For instance IN the case of ask, or warsh. IIRC, that’s a Midwestern thing, like Oklahoma and Iowa. Not Southern. I disagree with you, **CanvasShoes** , that saying “warsh” in the workaday world is lazy or careless. It is entirely possible that people are not aware that they are “doing it again”. Are you conscious of how you pronounce every word that comes out of your mouth? All the nagging and rolling of eyes in the world can not keep me from saying “heeeel” when I mean “hill”. It. Simply. Ain’t. Happening. Not because I’m lazy, but because the sounds are too similar for my simple brain. It’s not the fact that people are annoyed by people’s “mispronunciations” that’s annoying me. I don’t like how many Canadians say “rum” instead of “room” and how Milwaukians say 90% of their words. But I don’t take it further by saying these people are lazy just because they speak differently than I do. That crosses the line, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/47 "2004-07-14T00:21:27Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Also when someone says “ideal” when **they’re wanting** to say “idea.” _ **They’re wanting** _??? What’s up with that? You of course mean “They want”. And I’m sure you meant “idear”, not “ideal”. My point is that language is fluid, flexible, and endlessly mutable. It blithely ignores the rules that some set down for it, because you see, language is created and used by _people_! ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/48 "2004-07-14T00:32:12Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > IIRC, that’s a Midwestern thing, like Oklahoma and Iowa. Not Southern. > > I disagree with you, **CanvasShoes** , that saying “warsh” in the workaday world is lazy or careless. It is entirely possible that people are not aware that they are “doing it again”. Are you conscious of how you pronounce every word that comes out of your mouth? At work? Absolutely and without a doubt. I speak very carefully and wtih purpose. I enunciate very carefully. I’m very aware and have been since that long ago time in grade school and getting teased for it. In fact, in most situations, I am generally about the same. > [@](#): > > All the nagging and rolling of eyes in the world can not keep me from saying “heeeel” when I mean “hill”. It. Simply. Ain’t. Happening. Not because I’m lazy, but because the sounds are too similar for my simple brain. > > It’s not the fact that people are annoyed by people’s “mispronunciations” that’s annoying me. I don’t like how many Canadians say “rum” instead of “room” and how Milwaukians say 90% of their words. But I don’t take it further by saying these people are lazy just because they speak differently than I do. That crosses the line, IMHO. Again, as I said above, an ACCENT, such as a Canadian one, is not the same as one word that has a specific pronunciation, and is in one’s OWN language, being mangled such as “ax”. But I have NEVER, EVER rolled my eyes at anyone who does mispronounce ask. I am truly perplexed as to how someone, who must hear hundreds of people say wAHsh, or aSk, hundreds of times a day, doesn’t honestly hear the difference. If they don’t, then I’m very surprised. But wrong then. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/49 "2004-07-14T00:34:02Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > WHY do Brits and Canadians pronounce “aluminum” as AL LOO MIN EE U M? 😕 For the same reason we pronounce titanium “titanium”, or uranium “uranium”- because that’s how you fucking spell it. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/50 "2004-07-14T00:38:55Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It’s not the fact that people are annoyed by people’s “mispronunciations” that’s annoying me. I don’t like how many Canadians say “rum” instead of “room” and how Milwaukians say 90% of their words. But I don’t take it further by saying these people are lazy just because they speak differently than I do. That crosses the line, IMHO. There’s a difference between a variation in the pronunciation of a vowel combo such as “oo,” given the multiple variations in sounds this can represent, and reversing consonants. Whether it is due to laziness, ignorance, regional dialect, or any other reason, reversing k and s in “ask” is _not_ just a ‘different’ pronunciation. It may be dignified by long years of use, but it’s _still_ wrong. I know that English has many oddities of pronunciation, but “aks” is unusual in that it _does_ involve reversal of consonants, and because those who use it don’t generally say any other “ask” word as “aks.” And like it or not, people _are_ judged on the basis of speech variations from what is considered ‘standard.’ Debate it all you like on its merits; it makes little difference. No matter how well educated one is, one will be dismissed or devalued by a significant portion of the population if one deviates from ‘standard’ usage, particularly if one deviates in a way that is considered ‘incorrect.’ That is to say, something considered incorrect grammar will be viewed as worse than an accent. ---
**Author:** ![cdnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@cdnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cdnguy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/51 "2004-07-14T00:48:31Z")
> [@trandallt](#): > > Once again, with rythmn–IT’S A REGIONAL DIALECT. Not just their fathers, but their mothers, aunts, uncles, friends, teachers, coaches, ministers…I’TS HOW THEY TALK. And it’s not incorrect. It’s a variant with a history reaching hundreds of years in the past. Way before your father taught you how to be a close-minded chucking fucklehead. Wow you do take things rather literal don’t you? I think it was pretty obvious that I didn’t just mean their fathers. Rather I was using the term in the sense of ‘forefathers’, dumbass. > [@trandallt](#): > > My point was that having to think before speaking is not a lack of education thing. In fact, I think that the more educated you are the more you appreciate the value of thinking before you speak. I agree with you completely, and that was my point, so not sure what you arer arguing here. Unless, of course, your just an ass. > [@trandallt](#): > > College or university **what?** You said “people that have a college/university say ask a lot more often.” How many people do you know who have a college or university, if that makes it clearer for you. Perhaps you meant college or university education? Were you too lazy to proofread before you posted that? Dammit, got me again. Yes I was to lazy to proofread. I guess that means you have 2 points now. Not it seems I’ve really riled you up here, which I find very amusing. Basically saying I’m racist because it bothers me when people say ‘ax’ rather then ‘ask’ astounds me. It seems like a giant leap in logic. Other people have actually posted intelligent respones to my pitting. They don’t agree with me, which is fine, but they haven’t said I’m racist because of it. It is the pit though, so I can’t say as I care. If this is a regional dialect, which I may be willing to say could be the answer, how come, as **John Mace** pointed out, they don’t say ‘tax’ for ‘task’ or ‘bax’ for ‘bask’. It still bothers when people say ‘ax’, ‘idear’ and whatever else we can come up with. I have never said that I treat people who say this with any disrespect, because I treat everyone with respect, or no one some might say, but the point is I treat everyone the same. In short, fuck you and the giant shoulderchip you rode in on **trandalt**. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/52 "2004-07-14T00:57:29Z")
My mom says warsh all the time, drives me batty but I’ve learned to live with it. I even fall into that pattern at times, but the majority of the time I say wash because my Dad was always on my case about it. I don’t know if it has anything to do with it but my Mom was born and raised in Nova Scotia. The ‘axed’ thing really bugs me though. Sometimes I hardly notice but then other times it just jumps out at me. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/53 "2004-07-14T01:01:42Z")
> [@AvhHines](#): > > And like it or not, people are judged on the basis of speech variations from what is considered ‘standard.’ Oh, I know all too well! I’ve had people come up to me saying how “articulate” I am…how “proper” I speak. Um…were they expecting different? > [@](#): > > Debate it all you like on its merits; it makes little difference. People on this thread can change how they view language, though. If someone is lazy if they say “warsh”, are they lazy if they say “cah” for “car”? What if they “clahset” instead of “closet”? Or “Merry” instead of “Mary”? How do we designate the lazy languages from the not-lazy languages? For the record, I don’t like “ax” for “ask”. I’m used to it because I’m from the South and am quite familiar with AAVE, but it don’t like it. But I also don’t like people saying a speaker is lazy. It just bugs me. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/54 "2004-07-14T01:05:49Z")
> [@AvhHines](#): > > There’s a difference between a variation in the pronunciation of a vowel combo such as “oo,” given the multiple variations in sounds this can represent, and reversing consonants. Whether it is due to laziness, ignorance, regional dialect, or any other reason, reversing k and s in “ask” is _not_ just a ‘different’ pronunciation. It may be dignified by long years of use, but it’s _still_ wrong. I know that English has many oddities of pronunciation, but “aks” is unusual in that it _does_ involve reversal of consonants, and because those who use it don’t generally say any other “ask” word as “aks.” It’s a variant pronunciation. What’s so difficult to accept about that? What, because the letters are switched? How many people do you know that say “Hors d’oevre” properly, with the “v” before the “r”? How many people do you know that say “Favre” similarly? Metathesis is not that weird in English, and it’s not wrong. I don’t judge people because they say “ask” as “aks,” “comfortable” as “comfterble” (as I do), or “nuclear” as “nucular” (as much as I dislike our President, I find no fault in his pronunciation.) It’s regional variation. It may irk you who are not used to it. While I personally do not use the “aks” pronunciation, many of my colleagues --who are quite intelligent and successful-- do, and I don’t hear anyone bothered by it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/55 "2004-07-14T01:07:14Z")
“Hors d’oeuvres,” that should have been. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/56 "2004-07-14T01:09:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Not it seems I’ve really riled you up here, which I find very amusing. So you’re trolling? ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/57 "2004-07-14T01:23:20Z")
It may be a regional thing to say ‘ax’, but count me in the “it sounds lazy and/or less intelligent” crowd. I didn’t see anyone address what **John Mace** posted way back on page 1, but all of you who say ‘ax’ for ‘ask’, do you repeat that for words like ‘task’ and ‘mask’. Do you say “I’ve got to go get a Halloween max for that party” or “I hate it when my boss gives me that tax”? Also, how do you speak the second person present tense of ‘ask’? The sentence “He asks me that all the time!”. Do you really say “He axes me that all the time!”? If you’re gonna pronounce the ‘…ask’ properly in any of those situations above, I can’t see how difficult it is to say ‘ask’ when you mean ‘ask’. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/58 "2004-07-14T02:02:52Z")
Addendum: Ideas. Not Eye-dears. Washington. Not War-shington. ---
**Author:** ![Sisyphus\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sisyphus\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sisyphus_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/59 "2004-07-14T02:05:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > While we’re at that, a pet peeve: > > To pluralize a singular, add apostrophe-S. It does not matter if the singular ends with an S. For instance, if you want to refer to a golf club owned by Tiger Woods, you would call it “Tiger Woods’s seven-iron.” It is pronounced “Woods-es.” > > “Tiger Woods’ seven-iron” is one hundred percent wrong. And you are at least fifty per cent wrong. In most places in the former British Empire, where the Queen’s English was the language spoken, the ess-apostrophe is preferred, if somewhat archaic. It is insufferably insular and somewhat arrogant to assert that the ‘correct’ standard where you reside is the universally accepted form. And, I would suggest that, even in Canada, there are many who accept the ess-apostrophe as the possessive for proper nouns ending in ess, accepting, of course, that you didn’t really mean ‘pluralise a singular’. ---
**Author:** ![nitroglycerine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@nitroglycerine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitroglycerine)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/60 "2004-07-14T02:24:04Z")
How about those damn Canadians and their _aboots_. "_I want to ax you aboot that Mooshead I had in the fridge, eh?_ 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931.md?page=4)