# It is not 'ax' its 'ask' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931 "2004-07-13T18:10:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/81 "2004-07-14T16:30:51Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > No, no it doesn’t. Here’s the AP rules regarding apostrophes. I’m lazy, so I’ve quoted my own post from years back: Interesting. I wonder if this depends on what edition of the Stylebook you have. I got my information from Bryan Garner’s _Dictionary of Modern American Usage_, in which he says: > [@](#): > > Although the _AP Stylebook_ (6th ed., 1996) calls for nothing more than an apostrophe if the word already ends in _-s_ (p. 163), most authorities who aren’t journalists demand the final _-s_ as well. My university library has the 1996 edition of the _AP Stylebook_. On my next visit, i’ll have a look and see if Garner has misread the information. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/82 "2004-07-14T16:40:29Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Interesting. I wonder if this depends on what edition of the Stylebook you have. I got my information from Bryan Garner’s _Dictionary of Modern American Usage_, in which he says:My university library has the 1996 edition of the _AP Stylebook_. On my next visit, i’ll have a look and see if Garner has misread the information. Are you sure he’s not only referring to _proper_ nouns ending in “s”? I’ve been using the AP stylebook since 1995, and there hasn’t been any change in rules that I am aware of. **Colophon** – You might be surprised that the Chicago Manual of Style also recommends that usage. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/83 "2004-07-14T16:51:55Z")
To clarify (or further confuse): AP dictates a simple apostrophe after singular proper nouns ending in “s.” _Jones’ car_ Chicago Style recommends an apostrophe-s after the same. _Jones’s car_ Chicago Style makes exception to certain names, like Jesus and Moses _Jesus’ disciples_ AP & Chicago agree on _appearance’ sake_, _conscience’ sake_, and the such. (Actually, I think most stylebooks have this as an exception to normal apostrophe rules.) AP has the weird rule about too-many-esses in a row: _Waitress’s cart_ but _Waitress’ seat_ Chicago does not: _Waitress’s cart_ and _Waitress’s seat._ _except_ that Chicago drops the “s” in _goodness’ sake_ for euphony. I think I got that right. Everything clearer? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/84 "2004-07-14T16:55:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Are you sure he’s not only referring to _proper_ nouns ending in “s”? Not as far as i can tell. As i suggested, though, i’m not discounting the possibility that he misinterpreted the _AP Stylebook_’s rules. Although, given Garner’s general excellence and meticulousness, i would be surprised if this were the case. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/85 "2004-07-14T17:39:26Z")
In keeping with the southern pronunciation discussion, my grandmother (born and raised in Louisiana) always pronounced “Woolworth’s” as “Woolsworth”. I had always thought this was just because she was as dumb as a bag of hammers, but then I saw _O Brother Where Art Thou_, and the Mississippi sales clerk therein also pronounced it “Woolsworth”. I’m guessing this is a regional mispronunciation thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/86 "2004-07-14T18:10:34Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > On the other hand, it’s not too hard to see why so many people say “nukyular” instead of “nuclear”. Not only is the “CLEE-er” sound uncommon in English, the “kyu-ler” sound is rather common, especially in more technical terms like “muscular” or “vascular”. Never understood what is so UNclear about NUclear. Nobody goes around saying “unkyular” do they? The pronunciations of the two words aren’t that different - the “clear” in “nuclear” is something more of a dipthong - so why the confusion with one and not the other? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/87 "2004-07-14T19:14:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Not only is the “CLEE-er” sound uncommon in English, Huh? I’d have thought it is perfectly fucking **clear** that this is total bollocks. Which word do you use more often, “clear” or “muscular”? It’s not hard. “Let’s **clear** this room out. Then we’ll have a **new clear** space to use.” Wow - new… clear… nuclear… I said it right, mom! I’m still boggling over that “appearance’ sake” thing. I’m fairly certain that one hasn’t crossed the Atlantic yet. From _The Times_ style guide: > [@](#): > > **Apostrophes:** with proper names/nouns ending in “s” that are singular, follow the rule of writing what is voiced, eg, **Keats’s poetry** , **Sobers’s batting** , \*\*_The Times_’s \*\* style; and with names where the final “s” is soft, use the “s-apostrophe”, eg, **Rabelais’ writings** , **Delors’ presidency** ; plurals follow normal form, as **Lehman Brothers’ loss** etc > Note that with Greek names of more than one syllable that end in “s”, do not use the apostrophe “s”, eg, **Aristophanes’ plays** , **Achilles’ heel** , **Socrates’ life** , \*\*Archimedes’ principle \*\* > Beware of organisations that have variations as their house style, eg, **St Thomas’ Hospital** , where we must respect their whim. > Also, take care with apostrophes with plural nouns, eg, **women’s** , not **womens’** ; **children’s** , not **childrens’** ; **people’s** , not **peoples’**. > Use the apostrophe in expressions such as **two years’ time** , \*\*several hours’ delay \*\* etc. > An apostrophe should be used to indicate the plural of single letters - \*\*p’s and q’s \*\* I must say, though, that I find the rule of not adding an “s” where the final “s” is silent to be a little odd - I mean, surely the fact that it is silent means you _should_ add a voiced “s”, otherwise you mentally pronounce **Delors’** as “Duh-lohr” rather than “Duh-lohr’s”. ---
**Author:** ![High\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8797f3/32.png) [@High\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/88 "2004-07-14T20:59:19Z")
> [@cdnguy](#): > > I really hate it when people say ‘ax’ rather then ‘ask’? People? ---
**Author:** ![High\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8797f3/32.png) [@High\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/89 "2004-07-14T21:19:08Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > It’s not “its” it’s “it’s”. > > . . . and, yeah, that “ax” things makes me a little nuts, too. It _is_ its if it’s its. Example: The local boy scout troop cancelled _its_ weekly den meeting because a known sex offender had moved in next door. You n’it w’it. ---
**Author:** ![qcomdrj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/a6a055/32.png) [@qcomdrj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qcomdrj)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/90 "2004-07-14T21:33:13Z")
Ok, British people, you say Aluminium because it is spelled that way. What about battery (Batt-REE), military, cemetary, etc. It isn’t spelled that way so you can’t use that excuse. I myself say Batt-REE because I learned it from my dad. He grew up in Indiana. His dad doesn’t say it. We had some british influence about 200 years ago, but I can’t find anything more recent. Strangely, this accent is perceived as lazy or stupid, but “quaint”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![High\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8797f3/32.png) [@High\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/91 "2004-07-14T21:40:12Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I don’t know if you can assume anything about either the education or intelligence of someone who pronounces it “ax”, any more than you can assume anything about the education or intelligence of someone who uses the word “pop” instead of “soda”. It’s just a pronunciation that some dialects have. Bad argument. Both pop and soda are suitable substitutes of each other. Like sofa and couch or car and automobile. Calling soda pop is not mispronouncing soda…such as saying “sado” is mispronouncing soda. It is calling soda by another acceptable name. The “people” who say “aks” are not trying to pronounce the word “inquire” and due to a severely skewered dialect it sounds like “aks”. So we get enough people to start saying sado and it becomes dialect excusable pronunciation and not mispronunciation? Wherterver! —sorry for being a post hog— ---
**Author:** ![qcomdrj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/a6a055/32.png) [@qcomdrj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qcomdrj)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/92 "2004-07-14T21:45:49Z")
…is NOT perceived… carry on ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/93 "2004-07-14T22:11:57Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Never understood what is so UNclear about NUclear. Nobody goes around saying “unkyular” do they? The pronunciations of the two words aren’t that different - the “clear” in “nuclear” is something more of a dipthong - so why the confusion with one and not the other? I don’t think they’re as similar as you say although I, personally, have no problem pronouncing it correctly. My original statement was taken from W. Saffire’s analysis, who is pretty knowledgeable about word origins and pronunciations. Back to the OP, is it more common to make the “aks” mistake in the past tense than in the present tense? Seems to me you hear it more ask “akst”, for “asked” than as “aks” for “ask”. I could be wrong about this, but just wondering if anyone else has that impression. As noted earlier, I don’t think “ask” is an unusual English sound combination and have trouble understanding that it doesn’t “roll off the tongue easily”, however “asked” is a bit more difficult to say. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/94 "2004-07-14T22:17:24Z")
“Ax” is present tense. “Axt” is past tense. I have never heard someone use “ax” for “ask”, but then say it properly in past tense. “Lemme ax you a question…” “I axt her why…” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/95 "2004-07-14T23:24:08Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > “Ax” is present tense. “Axt” is past tense. I have never heard someone use “ax” for “ask”, but then say it properly in past tense. Maybe my mangled sentence structure obscured what I intended to say. I was actually asking (axing?) if the mistake is more common in the past tense than in the present tense: “I \*\*akst \*\* him yesterday, but I’ll \*\*ask \*\* him again tomorrow”. “Asked” is actually a awkward to pronounce. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/96 "2004-07-14T23:41:16Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > “I akst him yesterday, but I’ll ask him again tomorrow”. Like I was saying before, I have never heard someone do this. People who say “ax” use it equally across tenses in my experience. But I agree that “asked” is harder to pronounce than “ask”. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/97 "2004-07-15T06:11:52Z")
Upon reflection, I tend to pronounce “asked” as something closer to “assed”, with an extremely muted ‘K’ sound inserted. A crisp ‘K’ followed immediately by an equally crisp ‘T’ (which is how ‘-ed’ is pronounced in this case) lend themselves to being seperate syallables, turning “asked” into a three-syllable word. I, like most people, do not care to have this happen in everyday speech, thus: _I assed him a question_. As far as the whole “aks” thing goes, it mildly irks me as well, but I ignore it (just as I imagine most here who dispute this usage do). It’s definitely not the product of an accent, in which specific phonemes are prounouced differently: the British would aah-sk you something; Americans would ask it (with a much shorter ‘A’ sound). Accents do not result in the reversal of the order of phoneme pronunciation, merely the alteration of individual pronunciations. It’s closer to being a dialect, since one could argue that a seperate word entirely is being substituted for a specific word in the “standard” language. Though I have my doubts about what particular dialect “aks” would fall into, I can accept the plausibility of this argument, which is why I do not challenge the issue directly (well, that and the fact that I don’t make it a point to go around challenging others’ grammar). Really, I think the reason it bugs me in the first place is that “ax”, or “axe” if you prefer, is a perfectly valid English word that refers to a chopping tool. Normally, if a word’s origin is based in a dialect, it will either be unique to that dialect (in other words, they made it up), or else linked to a word in a language other than the one of which the dialect is a subsect. Please note that I do not have a cite for this; it is nothing more than my understanding of the subject (and thus the basis of my opinion) and should only be regarded as such. It’s the same reason that the use of “ideal” to mean “idea” bothers me, while “idear” does not. One is a mispronunciation, the other is just using the wrong damn word. I should also note that if such a usage is caused by an accent, such as southerners saying “heel” instead of “hill”, it doesn’t bother me at all. The intended word is clearly conveyed by context, and I consider this to be at worst a simple mispronunciation. Damn, that’s a pretty complex rationalization for why stuff bugs me, isn’t it? I guess my subconscious has a lot of spare time on its hands to think about this crap. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/98 "2004-07-15T10:11:28Z")
> [@qcomdrj](#): > > Ok, British people, you say Aluminium because it is spelled that way. What about battery (Batt-REE), military, cemetary, etc. It isn’t spelled that way so you can’t use that excuse. I myself say Batt-REE because I learned it from my dad. He grew up in Indiana. His dad doesn’t say it. We had some british influence about 200 years ago, but I can’t find anything more recent. > Strangely, this accent is perceived as lazy or stupid, but “quaint”. :rolleyes: I don’t know which Britons you’ve been listening to, but none that I know of says “Batt-REE”. It’s “BAT-uh-ree” in standard English, with the accent on the first syllable and three pronounced syllables. Isn’t that the normal American pronunciation too? Military and cemet **e** ry (with an “e”, not an “a”) I’ll give you - we Brits say “MILL-it-(uh)ree” and “SEM-uht-(uh)ree”, both with the accent on the first syllable and the -uh- syllable more or less swallowed, depending on the speaker - some people say “MILL-it-ree”, others “MILL-it-uh-ree”. However, unless we’ve been watching too many movies, we don’t stress the third syllable in the American way, which to my ears sounds like “mill-i-TERR-ee”. Quibbling about pronunciation could go on all day though, and I suspect it will. ---
**Author:** ![qcomdrj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/a6a055/32.png) [@qcomdrj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qcomdrj)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/99 "2004-07-15T16:40:18Z")
Colophon, Granted, you are in Hampshire, you hear it every day. However, I have heard some brits drop the “uh” in battery, and in artery, elementary, etc. The emphasis tends to be on the REE sound. The first time I said Batt-REE around my girlfriend’s dad (He’s from Leeds, but a long time ago), he asked where I got the Brighton accent. So I don’t know. It is an amusement for the other kids in medical school, as they ask me to say ar-TREE instead of artery. I don’t say pul-moh-n-uhry instead of pul-muh-nary, so I don’t have an accent on everything. I can’t unlearn it, but I can pronounce battery and artery normal. I never say lottery with odd emphasis, probably because I never heard it pronounced that way. Maybe I’m just odd (likely). I also say deh-po instead of DEE-po for depot. Who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931/100 "2004-07-16T00:04:54Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Would anyone who defends “ax” for “ask” while attacking “nucyular” for “nuclear” please spontaneously combust? Thank you in advance. Agreed. There’s so many real things to focus on in regard to the president that criticizing him for _speaking in a particular regional dialect_ is not only stupid, it makes the left look like a bunch of idiots who parrot what their fourth grade teacher told them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-not-ax-its-ask/254931.md?page=6)