By the way, do you people actually pronounce the ‘clear’ in nuclear the same as in unclear? ‘Clear’ has one syllable for me, but I pronounce nuclear /'nu kli @r/, with three syllables altogether. So I don’t see that as the same pronunciation in the slightest.
It’s not a matter of individual phonemes coming out differently, but the /ks/ pronunciation has as long a history as the standard one. It’s been attested at least into Middle English; it’s a matter of which dialect achieved prestige that determines that ‘ask’ is right and ‘aks’ is wrong.
It’s not just a matter of being “nice” that should stop you from “correcting” others’ grammar; different dialects have different words, different sounds, and sometimes different grammar. There’s nothing right or wrong about the issue.
I’m surprised no one has yet mentioned a common mispronunciation of the word “asterisk.” (like in “*”) It is NOT pronounced “aster-ik.”
I don’t know why this happens. I don’t have any problem making the correct sounds, and the people I hear saying “asterik” are of the same ethnic/linguistic background (that is, not furriners) as I am; a culture where “ax” for “ask” would be unthinkable.
I totally forgot about that one. Actually, I’ve always heard it as “asteriks” with the “ks” flip-flop. I don’t think I’ve ever heard “asterik”. But otherwise, my experience is the same as yours. The people who say it don’t say “aks” for “ask.”
Just thought I’d throw in some random statistical information, since many people refer to the pronunciation of “ax/ask” as a Southern regional issue. I was born in Arkansas. I have lived and attended public schools in this state for my entire life, as has my family. I say “ask”. My whole family says “ask”. All my friends use the word “ask”.
Nobody in my family (immediate or extended), circle of friends, or co-workers use the term “ax” in place of the work ask.
Our educational backgrounds run the gamut from graduate degrees to high school dropouts.
Now, I’ll admit that some folks in my family will say salmon, but they will ask if the salmon is fresh.
You are correct about some Brits dropping the middle syllable, but the emphasis is then on the 1st, not the last. BATT-ree, not batt-REE. Actually, more like BAA-tree.
Right. As I said, the reason I do not press the issue is because I recognize that the “aks as dialect” argument may well be valid, and I don’t (well, didn’t) have enough information to offer an opinion based on anything but gut instinct. Not something upon which I care to start a debate. That would also be why I used the word “challenge” rather than “correct” when describing how I might react to that particular usage. It has nothing to do with being “nice”. I do not go around presuming myself to be correct unless I have factual and logical evidence to support my position. I wouldn’t correct others’ grammar on this issue because even if I were reasonably sure I was right (which I’m not), I have no means of defending that position in a debate. And if I did, I would challenge the usage. My choice of words was deliberate.
And of course, now that “aks” has been traced back as far as it has, I can certainly accept the dialectical argument as not only possible but factual. If I know my pet peeves, and I do, it’ll probably stop bugging me now.
I remember listening to a sergeant in basic training droning on for hours about how to eXcape, should we be captured. It was our duty as a soldier to eXcape, never give up, always try to eXcape, etc. Drove me batty.
Probably because I was trapped and couldn’t eXcape from his lecture.
Canvas Shoes, one of the definitions of accent according to Webster’s:
.
In the United States we have generally come to accept Midwestern accents as “standard” because that is where most broadcast schools were originally located. There is no inherent superiority.
And “accent” can even refer to choice[ of words – pop, soda or cold drink. (Again, according to Webster’s)
To me, Jimmy Carter was the first President that didn’t have an accent! Clinton’s voice is easy on my ears too. President Kennedy made me wince when he said “Cuber” instead of “Cuba,” but I never doubted his education or intelligence. I recognized it for what it was – a regional dialect – his Boston accent.
The use of “aks” as a pronunciation of ask is dialectical. The dictionary does not describe it as sub-standard. You may not be aware of your own dialectical choices, but a really good dialectician might be able to pinpoint fairly accurately what part of which state you are from.
Lib has a point. I should be exploding about now. Bush’s pronunciation of nuclear bugs the hell out of me. (It bothered me when Carter did it too!) But a lot of very well-educated people use it.
I agree with you that people are judged on their language choices. As a Southerner, I have had that work both for me and against me. Making judgments based on accents or dialects is, in itself, a little ignorant.
Someday you may knock of my door and say, “It’s me!” I will not assume that you don’t know better. I will just fix you a big glass of iced tea.
BTW, who said it’s not its? It is sometimes! “The puppy was crying for its mother.”
I’ll bet 'e actually said: “‘Ere’s a fuckin’ ‘h’ init!!!”
Anyway, I don’t buy **Zoe’s ** assertion that Midwestern English is the standard English in the U.S. because the original broadcast schools were in the Midwest.
That accent was chosen because it was ‘neutral’ – not too Maine-ish, not too Baaaastonish, not too Deep South, and not too Western twangy.
I think ‘ax’ is weird – it hurts my ears and I unconsciously DO (I admit) make a judgment about why an ‘ax’ speaker doesn’t speak standard English.
I accept that it is a regional dialect, though, but the whole question to me is how much non-standard English does one accept as being O.K.?
I can accept the occasional variation, but if someone rattles off a sentence such as:
“I was axed why me and him went to the store and what we brung back and I said we didn’t bring back nothing and I can’t hardly finger why you cares anyway.”
Speakers should – out of respect to their listeners – make a healthy effort to conform to the standard rules of the language they are using. I love language, and I can appreciate regional variations and accents and dialects and I don’t wish them to disappear.
But use proper grammar, dammit, even if your Mammy and Pappy didn’t!
Not sure if its been mentioned in the thread but for what it’s worth this usage is common in the UK in black urban youth subculture and seems to be spreading. Just another symptom of the anti-learning, anti education young male mindset that seems to me to be a factor in the gap in educational attainment between the sexes in general and young black males and the rest in particular, in the UK.
Clinton’s voice is easy on my ears too. President Kennedy made me wince when he said “Cuber” instead of “Cuba,” but I never doubted his education or intelligence. I recognized it for what it was – a regional dialect – his Boston accent.
