# "It is unlawful to film a crow in the US" Huh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 1, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603 "2003-04-01T01:28:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/1 "2003-04-01T01:28:04Z")
While recently watching the DVD of _Six Feet Under_, one of the special features mentioned that the crow in the opening sequence was actually a Chinese crested crow, with its typically white breast painted black. Apparently, it is unlawful to film a crow in the United States. This, I’d assume, is also why the recent Glass Plus commercials feature the same variety of black-and-white crow. One has to ask…_why_ is it so bad to film a crow? Is it some weird superstition? This just sounds like one of those old bizarro laws–like you can’t eat peanuts in church in South Carolina–that is somehow still on the books. But unlike those, this law seems to be enforced, judging by the concerns of the flimmakers. ---
**Author:** ![Flying\_Monk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@Flying\_Monk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flying_Monk)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/2 "2003-04-01T01:31:36Z")
Gee, I wonder what they used in place of a crow in “The Crow”. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/3 "2003-04-01T01:35:30Z")
C’mon your not suggesting someone would have called the cops on the filmmakers if they had shown a real crow? This can’t be serious, surely? ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/4 "2003-04-01T01:37:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Flying\_Monk \* > \*\*Gee, I wonder what they used in place of a crow in “The Crow”. \*\* Well, Brandon Lee, of course. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/5 "2003-04-01T01:57:14Z")
The closest I’ve been able to find is that crows are protected by law, and it is illegal to own without being a licensed trainer, something a movie studio would certainly have. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/6 "2003-04-01T02:45:58Z")
I believe crows are covered under some sort of US-Canada migratory bird protection act or something, but I have no idea what that would entail. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/7 "2003-04-01T02:46:01Z")
Crows protected by law? In Michigan, they are ‘small game’, and can be hunted from August through March, with no bag limit. I smell a urban legend… ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/8 "2003-04-01T02:46:46Z")
> [@](#): > > C’mon your not suggesting someone would have called the cops on the filmmakers if they had shown a real crow? This can’t be serious, surely? Of course not, **samarm**. But it is a law taken seriously enough by the filmmakers for them to go out of their way not to film an actual crow (but still expend the extra energy to dye another bird into a lookalike). Perhaps there’s some animal treatment/conservation/whatever fine they could be assessed. I’m still wondering why they didn’t bother with a raven, unless there’s something about them, too. This just seems to be a very bizarre law. Could it be just a California state law? Alan Ball specifically said it was unlawful in the US, but perhaps he misspoke/misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/9 "2003-04-01T02:51:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Crows and Ravens are wild animals, and are not pets in the same way that cats and dogs are. It is unfair to keep wild animals in captivity, and (unless you have the right facilities) can border on cruel. **It is also illegal**. Wild birds are protected by most state laws, and you can be charged or fined for keeping a wild bird in captivity. (Bolding mine) From[this article](http://www.shades-of-night.com/aviary/where.html). ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/10 "2003-04-01T03:00:12Z")
That clarifies that it is illegal to keep it in captivity, but does not address filming. Crows are wild birds, certainly, and the filmmakers themselves wouldn’t be able to have one _of their own_ at hand. But they could probably find a trainer and/or a conservationist with one available, yes? I make that inference as that’s what is done with all kinds of exotics and non-domestic species. You can’t have a bald eagle for a pet, either, but no one is painting golden eagles’ heads and filming that instead of the real thing. The same could be said for nearly countless species, bird, mammal, reptile, or otherwise. Where is **brachyrhynos** , our resident corvidologist? ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/11 "2003-04-01T03:07:03Z")
Okay…I’ve shuffled off an email to our expert. Hopefully she’ll be here in a little bit to clear up the issue! [SUB]Anyone else thinking about the Deep Thought relating to crows?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![brachyrhynchos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brachyrhynchos/32/376_2.png) [@brachyrhynchos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brachyrhynchos)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/12 "2003-04-01T03:15:03Z")
Hehe, I was working on this when I got your email. Hi **Ruffian**! I haven’t seen that particular film, but I do have a copy of _The Crow_, and as far as I can tell, they used _Corvus brachyrhynchos_ (American Crow) in the film and possibly _Corvus corax_, Common Raven. The credits (if I remember right) listed a crow wrangler. This person, as **Q.E.D.** suggests, would have to be in possession of a USFWS salvaging permit, which allows them to hold a native US species. They also likely had to have a state permit from the state’s DEP and possibly a Bird Banding Lab permit from the USGS. These permits are not easy to obtain (often need to show scientific merit and the ability to handle wild birds without endangering their lives). The filming _per se_ is not illegal. If it were, a lot of news agencies would be in hot water from all the news clips of crows shown when West Nile virus is active. Rather, I think the filming of a **captive** native species requires that the bird is held under the appropriate permits because the permits are required regardless of whether the bird is filmed or not. I’ve not heard of a Chines Crested Crow, but they’re probably referring to a Large-billed Crow (_Corvus macrorhynchos_) or a Jungle Crow (_Corvus levaillantii_). Or possibly a House Crow (_Corvus splendens_), but I’m not sure if they’re found in China. I’ll need to check my copy of _Crows of the World_. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/13 "2003-04-01T03:18:57Z")
I think the OP is missing something. Do you mean to say that if I’m walking around a park and see a crow on a fence and I whip out a video camera and start filming it, I’m breaking the law? The law is rather broad on allowing one to take pictures of things/beings/people that are in public. I find it hard to believe that I’m allowed to film anything that’s in public _except_ a dirty 'ol crow. I’m willing to bet that those that stated it has something to do with having the bird in captivity are on the right path! ---
**Author:** ![brachyrhynchos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brachyrhynchos/32/376_2.png) [@brachyrhynchos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brachyrhynchos)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/14 "2003-04-01T03:38:40Z")
I should have mentioned that the above permits are not needed for the foreign species listed, but other permits (importing or CITES?) might be required. I’m not up on those so I don’t know how difficult they are to obtain. I’ve wondered about the increase in the use of House Crows in commercials. I’d be interested in knowing where they were filmed. Given the shedding of WN virus by birds, I do know that a few ornithology classes gave serious thought to restricting trapping activities. We have to show all sorts of paper work for the biosafety committee here at Rutgers, and as a consequence, I’ve added a rubber apron, nitrile glove, and protective sleeving to my gonna-catch-some-bird wear. It has become more difficult to catch birds. Perhaps the use of foreign birds is not related to either emerging diseases or permits, but it’s still curious. “Dirty ol’ crow?!” **sputter** All the crows I’ve had took baths every day. (Just makes me laugh to hear “dirty birds” because my mom used to say “Don’t touch those dirty birds” when I was a tot. Little did she know I’d become an ornithologist, heh.) ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/15 "2003-04-01T04:42:42Z")
I was gonna say…SOMEthing just wasn’t right about what Alan Ball was saying. I wouldn’t say I necessarily was missing something, **pkbites** , but that Mr. Filmmaker was. (That’s part of what my OP was–“is he nuts, or is he right about a nutty law?”) **brachy** , thanks once again for coming the the crow-rescue. 😉 FWIW, _Six Feet Under_ isn’t a movie–it’s a TV series on HBO about a family-run funeral home business. Thus…the crow imagery in the opening credits. I’ll give a listen to the DVD tomorrow or so to hear what he says that white-chested crow was called and let you know. I’m pretty sure it’s the same as the ones in the Glass Plus commercial. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/16 "2003-04-01T04:51:38Z")
Any time I hear about a strange law, I start to wonder if there was a lawyer involved in the framing of the question. Is it, in fact, illegal to tether a lion with one foot painted black to a red fire hydrant on Market Street in San Francisco during a solar eclipse on a Friday when the moon is full during a month that ends in “R”? Well, it’s probably illegal to handle a wild animal in a way that’s dangerous to the general public, so yeah, it would be. If you ask your lawyer, he’ll tell you he’s not sure and spend some expensive time researching and come back with a maybe that urges you not to do it. Laws are passed for fun from time to time (the value of pi), and the folks who draft legislation are occasionally blind to a technicality, but the citation on things like “It is illegal to film a crow in the United States” is generally sorely lacking. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-unlawful-to-film-a-crow-in-the-us-huh/165603/17 "2003-04-01T04:53:49Z")
( **Ruffian** : sorry about my snippy post at the top of this thread - it wasn’t very helpful was it?) 🙂