# It is Upon Us: My Daughter Is Using Bad Language **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 24, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914 "2006-09-24T02:45:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/61 "2006-09-24T23:50:51Z")
[QUOTE=Rilchiam] **Shag** I have never heard anyone get laughed at for saying “wicked”. I’ve never heard anyone get laughed at for saying “y’all.” Or “dude”. Or “dahn-tahn”. Unless the person doing the laughing was the ignorant one. **Shag** , this is a very diverse country. There’s room for, and tolerance of, all types of people. The problem is **you**. You put way too much emphasis on artificial constructs, judging other people and fearing being judged. Nobody cares about this stuff except you. Don’t inflict it on your daughter. Now I’m going off to order milk in a bar. What was it you said about that? Off-the-wall, anti-social behavior? You really thought that? You are a sad, strange little man. [/QUOTE] I resent that. I am not little. I come in at 6’1" 210. Many of my stories don’t have a point but, if you took away that you shouldn’t order milk in a bar, then I can say that accomplished at least something in my life. I suppose I am very pretenious in my own way although I am not sure where it came from. I grew up in a very poor, rural area. Nevertheless I developed as a redneck Frasier Crane but don’t think I do this for anyone else’s benefit. I am certainly no social climber and never will be. This afternoon I went to see some much older friends in Cambridge. They are putting in a giant raised garden and I need plants for mine so they gave me some. The husband has at least $100 million or at least that is what I saw him get when we cashed out our stock options. He is on the board of at least 5 companies and 1 university and he is one of the people that I respect the most. However, both he and his wife still talk like bad Boston movie. I cringe when I hear them say some things. This isn’t a class based opinion. More seriously, my FIL is a multi-millionaire as well but he sounds like he just saved up enough money to take a bus out of Revere for the first time. He has often heard in all honestly how much he could of accomplished if he had a better education and more refined demeanour even though he has seen and done more all over the world than anyone I know. He always kept that lower-class Boston something and can’t seem to shake it. Some people seem to be offended by this story but the implications are almost universal. That is why families spend a great deal of money to end up in the “right” school districts and segregate themselves whenever possible in lots of ways. If you say that Massachusetts-isms, I am not sure where you are hanging out. It happens all the time especially within the region itself. Some of that stuff can make you go sterile if you listen too long. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/62 "2006-09-24T23:58:24Z")
I don’t know if pretentious is the word I’d use. Rude and misinformed possibly. > [@](#): > > I am born and bred Southerner and although my wife is from Massachusetts, she certainly doesn’t have a Boston accent either. I detest all of the different versions of the Boston accents and believe that it is rarely , if ever, an asset to anyone. If we lived in the South, I would discourage the “aint’s” and other ugly language usages common there as well as the Bronx etc. Funny, I think the exact opposite. I’d take a Boston accent over a southern accent any day. Maybe because most of my family has one. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/63 "2006-09-25T00:06:35Z")
At the risk of offending people here with a southern accent, because I don’t mean this as an insult. Explain to me where a southern accent is considered ‘refined’ as opposed to a Boston accent? I’m not making class distinctions as you appear to be, because I find them both equally pleasing to the ear. But where in Boston is ‘lower class Boston’ in case that’s where my family is from. I’ll make sure to tell them not to speak in polite company so they won’t offend anyone. > [@](#): > > Some people seem to be offended by this story but the implications are almost universal. Your wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/64 "2006-09-25T00:07:07Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] Your wrong. [/QUOTE] I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/65 "2006-09-25T00:26:59Z")
I don’t know what your case is, Shagnasty. I read your post last night and thought it was funny and sort of cute. I even clicked on your profile and saw what an adorable family you have, and thought the story was even more sweet picturing your daughter. But seriously, the more you explain what you meant the ruder it sounds. Did you re-read what you posted? Not to make a big deal out of a little story about your family, but I found it to be a little insulting. Surely you can see that, can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/66 "2006-09-25T00:32:35Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] Many of my stories don’t have a point but, if you took away that you shouldn’t order milk in a bar, then I can say that accomplished at least something in my life. [/QUOTE] And yet you still fail to see how pretentious and shallow you sound. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/67 "2006-09-25T00:35:38Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] I don’t know what your case is, Shagnasty. [/QUOTE] Look very closely at your own two word quote. I just thought it was funny although I pray that you can see what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/68 "2006-09-25T00:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] I resent that. I am not little. I come in at 6’1" 210. [/quote] Oh, I get it! That’s more of your humor! :smack: > [@](#): > > Many of my stories don’t have a point but, if you took away that you shouldn’t order milk in a bar, then I can say that accomplished at least something in my life. I didn’t get “shouldn’t” from your story. What I took away from that thread was other people’s comments, most notably these: > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Already In Use** > _I only drink milk and order it wherever I go, and I get CRAZY laid. Just sayin’._ > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **matt\_mcl** > _Frank: What’s your poison? > Me: Coke please. > Frank: No, your poison. > Me: Coke’s poisonous. > Frank: Aw, I was hoping to get you drunk. > Me: You don’t have to get me drunk, honey._ So what I got is that there’s no hard and fast rule about drink orders re: social acceptance. > [@](#): > > I suppose I am very pretenious in my own way although I am not sure where it came from. I grew up in a very poor, rural area. Nevertheless I developed as a redneck Frasier Crane but don’t think I do this for anyone else’s benefit. I am certainly no social climber and never will be. Yeah, but you judge people all over the place, for the most trivial things. Sounds to me like you’re carrying a lot of baggage from the past. People dissed you, or you thought they were dissing you, and you’re still bitter about it, and thinking that if you elevate yourself enough, and point out other people’s supposed shortcomings, you can justify your worth. Is your daughter a pleasant person? Is she considerate of others? Does she say please and thank you and may I? Does she wait her turn to speak instead of interrupting? Does she sit up straight at table? **That kind of thing is what makes a refined person, not speech patterns or drink orders.** And you misspelled pretentious. Just so you know. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/69 "2006-09-25T00:43:13Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] … He has often heard in all honestly how much he \*\*could of \*\* accomplished if he had a better education and more refined demeanour… [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Shagnasty] … > [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Caridwen > Your wrong. I rest my case. [/QUOTE] Anybody can be wrong (see bold). Even at the best schools, kids will pick up and use inappropriate language. At a certain age, they will especially pick up inappropriate language that is known to cheese off their parents. (Uh, can I say “cheese off” in this thread?) ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/70 "2006-09-25T00:44:34Z")
Let me try again. > [@](#): > > Some people seem to be offended by this story but the implications are almost universal. I don’t agree with you and don’t think the implications are universal. I can only speak for myself, but I might not appreciate my daughter picking up slang that I don’t approve of because oif it’s meaning. Not because it was said with that ‘horrible, unrefined, bad part of town Boston accent’ if that’s where I live. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/71 "2006-09-25T00:48:59Z")
Look at it this way, Shagnasty’s kid is going to have a lot to rebel against in about a decade. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/72 "2006-09-25T02:05:09Z")
When we moved to the Providence area from Queens, that use of “wicked” was something we embraced right away. My son says thinks are "wicked _hicked_ " nice or bad or gross or hard or awesome when he really means it. P.S. he also really thinks the drinking fountain is a bubblah. Mr. Caricci and I think that’s wicked hicked cute. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/73 "2006-09-25T03:13:55Z")
**Shagnasty** is pulling our collective legs. He is too good a writer not to see the joys of regionalisms. We’ve been had! On both of our trips to New England, we quickly adopted “wicked” and used it at every opportunity. We have missed being able to use it (and still be understood) upon our return to Tennessee. > [@](#): > > **Caridwen** : At the risk of offending people here with a southern accent, because I don’t mean this as an insult. Explain to me where a southern accent is considered ‘refined’ as opposed to a Boston accent? No offense taken. In the South, a Southern accent is often considered “refined” while a Boston accent sounds funny and sometimes uneducated to our ears. As much as we loved President Kennedy, we used to grimace when he pronounced _Cuba_ as if it ended with an _er_ instead of an _uh_ (swah) sound. And his pronunciation of words that _did_ have an _r_ sounded very countrified to the Southern ear: _Park your car in the barnyard_ became _Pock ya ca in the bonyod._ I’m sure this sounds exaggerated to you, but that’s how it sounded to us. In college I read a study that indicated that Southern men who moved to the North tended to lose their Southern accents while Southern women retained theirs. For Northerners, the reverse was true. Northern men who moved South kept their accents and Northern women tended to lose theirs. Linguists will tell you that accents and dialects don’t reflect how “refined” one is. That’s a fairly vague term anyway. Did any of you Southerners grow up eating Arsh potatoes? I thought I had imagined this until I saw it confirmed in a book recently. The memoir was set 29 miles from the small rural West Tennessee community where I grew up. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/74 "2006-09-25T03:40:08Z")
**Zoe** , having read his previous nonsense about how uncouth it is to order milk in a bar (where he states, if you MUST not drink, you HAVE to request something that has a lime wedge, so you’ll be “sophistocated”), I doubt he’s pulling our legs. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/75 "2006-09-25T04:09:52Z")
Man, the quality control of the nation’s panty manufacturers must be slipping. A lot of pairs seem to be in a bunch in this thread. **Shag** , I feel for you. Just be thankful that “pissah” went out as a synonym for “cool” a couple decades back. Imagine my impression as a Bostonian (or Needhamite if that means anything to you) when I got out here 9 years ago and the going adjective among the kiddies for something great was “_tight_”. The implications for just the etymology of that one had me reeling. You could have it so much worse. I’m sure a southern gentleman of your distinction _might could_ realize that if he tried. 😃 P.S.: You wanted to keep her from coarse, uncosmopolitan regional language and you moved to _Holliston_?!? ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/76 "2006-09-25T04:42:25Z")
To add in my $.02: Neither of my parents use much slang. I used very little until I went off to college and realized I didn’t fit in. Too proper language tends to put barriers inbetween people. My senior year I knew a girl who not only used very little slang, she also flat out refused to try to understand euphemisms (especially sexual ones). The result was that no one really talked to her unless they had to - we didn’t have a common language (and she would say things that could be taken in quite another way and then be very annoyed and confused when the other person would laugh. And since she never wanted to know the why of the laughter, this happened constantly). (For the sake of clarity - if she just didn’t use slang or euphemisms but was otherwise a pleasant person we likely would have all gotten along. She was just not pleasant to be around and the above traits were some of the more prickly ones.) ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/77 "2006-09-25T07:53:46Z")
Unless you live in a really blue-collar town it’s unlikely your daughter will ever develop the dreaded Boston accent in terms of day-to-day pronounciation. A lot of people use it as an adjective just to be cute. Note, “Newbury Comics: Wicked Awesome.” (which is actually their tagline as far as I remember). I see wicked as the New England “hella” which people are just going to use ironically once in a while. I lived in Mass for a hell of a lot longer than you have and have yet to develop even the faintest trace of a Boston accent even though most of the surrounding communities to the town I grew up in (Lexington)…like Billerica, Somerville, Burlington, Waltham, were boston-accented bastions. Then again, while I find the sound of the Boston accent unpleasant I don’t quite have the same…classist distaste for it. I don’t really know what Holliston is like because it seems super farout from the city, but if you want to raise your kid to be a proper snob you’re better off in the wealth belt communities of Sudbury-Wellesley-Lexington-Lincoln-Concord etc… ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/78 "2006-09-25T09:26:54Z")
I feel your pain. My six year old thinks nifty things are “vet cool” and calls his brother a “suffe knor”. This is what happens when you live in Holland. Worse, my four year old says “beetje” and “soeven” and “meiske”. He refers to my elder child as his “bruur”. This is what happens when you live in the south of Holland. Their English however is fairly formal and correct. This is what happens when the only English you hear is from one parent and occasional television. Having had some experience with fighting the dominant culture I can only suggest that you consider a move. To a cave, possibly. Or a foreign land. Whichever is closer. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/79 "2006-09-25T12:52:58Z")
My son was four when he watched Shrek. I asked him how he liked the music. “I’m down with that.” What! I doubt that has ever come out of my mouth (except telling this story) or his father’s. “I’m down with that?!” Where did he pick that up? I was shocked, and endlessly amused. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914/80 "2006-09-25T14:17:31Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] You and others have it right. The general idea in the story is real. I really don’t care for the Massachusetts accents and my wife likes them even less. My daughter favors me as much as an opposite sex child can yet it is jarring to see her have a speech pattern that is diverging from something I never knew growing up I am sure that many parents that raise kids far away from their own home region feel the same way deep down unless that change is a clear improvement socially speaking. My writing style (and my speaking style even) tends to whoosh some people badly and those that don’t get it tend to hate me. It is written to emphasize hyperbole and the feelings felt. To those of you who reject the basic idea, wouldn’t you be a little alarmed if your progeny started displaying symptoms of a valley girl, redneck, or Bronx accent if that wasn’t the style of speech used by you. There has to be some limit right? Speech pattern education belongs in the parenting realm as much or more than most things because it is so important. I grew up in a seriously tiny redneck town. Even though my mother has a strong Texas accent, she didn’t have some poor country characteristics that the people around us had. I remember her clearly forcing me to say “on” instead of “own” (as in, “I left my keys own the table”) because she thought it sounded ignorant and it really did. Same idea. Using the word wicked in the rest of the English speaking world will get you mocking laughs at best. [/QUOTE] **Shag,** if I’d gotten married to any of the guys who’ve ever proposed to me, my kids would have been American. They would have spoken Spanish as a second language and only because I’m stubborn that way. Excuse me if I think your preocupation is silly at best (joke or no joke). My mother speaks Spanish with a Northern-neutral accent, slightly colored by occasional weird phrases that are direct translations from Catalan. Dad spoke Northern-neutral, slightly colored by Pamplona. You could recognize their regions of origin only if you’d spent time in them. Us kids speak Northern-neutral, slightly colored by Ribero; people mistake the coloring for the very-similar Aragonese because that’s one accent that’s common on TV. If we’d been raised in the South we probably would be unable to pronounce a proper Z; I’ve seen families like that in the train, where the parents were evidently North and the kids Andalusian accents were solid enough to be cut with a knife. I’ve also seen the opposite, Northern children born of Southern parents. Your kid’s genotype comes from you and the wife. The phenotype… sorry, that comes from you, the wife, whatever she eats and every single person she contacts through her life. Scary, uh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-upon-us-my-daughter-is-using-bad-language/373914.md?page=5)