# It is wise to scoff at preppers? Are their fears really so outlandish? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 24, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769 "2015-01-24T17:24:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/141 "2015-01-29T02:37:12Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > The bolded part cracked me up. Have you read your replies to **even sven**? You seem genuinely angry at her for not having a freaking bug-out bag. As far as I can tell, the only hostility expressed in this thread is coming from you. You are confused. I am impatient with her and dismissive of her ideas, but I am not angry. I don’t care whether even sven has nothing at all or her own presidential bunker. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/142 "2015-01-29T02:48:00Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > But how would being a prepper appreciably help in any of those situations? E.g. is there a cadre of preppers in Cambodia that is better off than the average Cambodian? My argument against the more hard-core preppers is that they are preparing in a “macho” way; stock-piling weapons, cans of beans, and gold. > > If one really wants to prep for disaster than they need to move to an isolated location _before_ the disaster where few will know where they are. Otherwise they’ll eventually be overwhelmed but others. Sorry if I wasn’t clear: I don’t see a prepper’s function as ‘being of help’ in those situations; I’m talking about how the collapse of utility/police force/civil services leaves one to fend for self and family against local punks, looters, gangs, etc…not the public good. Naturally, a local small unit cannot sustain itself ad infinitum-but, perhaps it can do enough to hold on until the emergency state has passed. ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/143 "2015-01-29T02:53:07Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > I was just thinking of something I read once, and I wanted to get opinions. The gist of it was that most preppers were going about it all wrong in one very important respect: they were trying to prepare to survive world-ending catastrophe _alone_. The author’s opinion was that people best survive by pulling together a small community of people preparing together would fare much better than each of them would alone. > > People talk about having lots of guns and ammo, but that’s unlikely to make a huge difference if being attacked from all sides by a mob who’ve realized you have life-sustantaining/saving supplies. Or if you get sick and have no one to care for you (and you’d be too sick to use your weapons then, anyway). Sometimes whatever medicine is stockpiled won’t be sufficient to keep you well. This exactly. You can’t stay awake 24 hours a day, every day. You can’t stockpile many medications. At best insurance will cover 90 days supply. You can’t prep for a broken leg, an eye injury, or even cover your butt against infections because so many bacteria carry resistance. Do you want the responsibility for trying to take out your daughter’s appendix, especially when you’ve pissed off the doctor next door, much less the whole neighborhood? The best way to survive is in a group of people, each with a skill such as butchering or shoemaking or some medical training. Nobody’s going to knowingly shoot the nurse or the dentist or the mechanic. Going it alone is crazy. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/144 "2015-01-29T02:54:50Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Unfortunately, those in positions of power and privilege who wanted to tear apart Yugoslavia were highly adept at keeping track of “those countries.” Maybe if more people gave a damn about what their governments were doing in their name around the world, such things (and the collapses we’re talking about here, more generally) would not have happened! That goes for Cambodia as well. There was nothing the least bit civilized about[Nixon and Kissinger (“Yes Mr. President, anything that flies on everything that moves.”)](http://johnpilger.com/articles/from-pol-pot-to-isis-anything-that-flies-on-everything-that-moves)ordering the aerial destruction of Cambodia, with an enormous death toll, paving the way for the Khmer Rouge to take over. Wow, this is really something! But, can you explain why you dragged my post into it other than to key off of the word _Cambodia_, and using that to attack your interpretation of the policy of a President and his advisor who have been out of power for over 40 years, and whose party you are not a member of? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/145 "2015-01-29T03:01:54Z")
> [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](#): > > This exactly. You can’t stay awake 24 hours a day, every day. > > You can’t stockpile many medications. At best insurance will cover 90 days supply. You can’t prep for a broken leg, an eye injury, or even cover your butt against infections because so many bacteria carry resistance. Do you want the responsibility for trying to take out your daughter’s appendix, especially when you’ve pissed off the doctor next door, much less the whole neighborhood? > > The best way to survive is in a group of people, each with a skill such as butchering or shoemaking or some medical training. Nobody’s going to knowingly shoot the nurse or the dentist or the mechanic. Going it alone is crazy. Prepping isn’t about doing major surgeries-it is about prepping for what you can. The whole group thing is a bit screwed up-you can bet that fully 60 percent (number pulled out of my ass) of the group will do/have done NOTHING in re: legitimate preparations and food storage, and will sponge off of/steal from/vote against the rest of the group that has done something. Then, when their supplies dwindle down to very small levels, that is when the beasts will arise within the group(s). That is much of what preppers are prepping against. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/146 "2015-01-29T03:26:05Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > ^ After all, apart from guns and nonperishable food stores, what is the most stereotypical thing to stockpile? Gold and silver, right? The value of this utterly depends on there being commerce. Gold and silver will \*always \*be a valuable commodity. Also, there will always be commerce, as long as there are people. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/147 "2015-01-29T04:15:27Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Gold and silver will \*always \*be a valuable commodity. Also, there will always be commerce, as long as there are people. That’s what I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/148 "2015-01-29T07:57:37Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I am married to a foreigner. I have in-laws in Ukraine and cousins in England and Italy. Your “plan” is still a non-starter. 😕Spousal immigration is pretty much the easiest aside from child of a citizen almost everywhere, why is it a non-starter? A lot of countries even have laxer laws than the USA and allow the spouse of a citizen to reside there while applying for permanent residency. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/149 "2015-01-29T09:25:04Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Gold and silver will \*always \*be a valuable commodity. The most valuable commodities would be things that are actually useful to people in an apocalyptic scenario, in small communities trying to survive. Gold ain’t one of them. Can’t eat gold. Can’t clothe yourself in gold. Etc. The “City of Ember” series actually provides a lot of analysis into this kind of topic. In the second book, _The People of Sparks_, humanity has almost been wiped out by a series of four wars and three plagues, and are now living in scattered small communities. No more electricity or anything. Transportation is made up of animal-drawn vehicles (which, amusingly, are the hollowed-out shells of pre-apocalypse cars and trucks), bicycles, horses, and the shoe-leather express. Basically, the ultimate TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario’s result. One of the roamers (scavengers) arrives in Sparks with a load. What gets snatched up immediately are things useful for building, gardening, and such. Soap is mentioned and snapped up quickly. Clothing, the same. Then comes jewelry, some of which is gold. The only person in town who wants the jewelry is one of the local crackpots, who says they’ll use it to “pretty up their oxen”. If you want commodities for an SHTF scenario, then look to food, medicine, clothing, solar/wind generators (and stuff to use the power, like lamps and fans), and perhaps also bicycles (and trikes, and quadricycles). They’ll get you a lot further than stuff whose only use is being shiny. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/150 "2015-01-29T09:29:28Z")
Gold and silver are most useful in that scenario because they are easily malleable. You can easily make a gold or silver cup. And they’ll be useful when the recovery happens. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/151 "2015-01-29T15:30:07Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Wow, this is really something! But, can you explain why you dragged my post into it other than to key off of the word _Cambodia_, and using that to attack your interpretation of the policy of a President and his advisor who have been out of power for over 40 years, and whose party you are not a member of? Thanks. Your post made me think about how, if Americans knew more about the outside world (“can’t keep track of those countries”) and specifically knew and cared about (and disapproved of) what their government was doing, there might be fewer such calamities. I’m not sure what there is to interpret about one of the world’s richest countries bombing (on an enormous scale) one of the poorest. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/152 "2015-01-29T16:01:13Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Your post made me think about how, if Americans knew more about the outside world (“can’t keep track of those countries”) and specifically knew and cared about (and disapproved of) what their government was doing, there might be fewer such calamities. > > I’m not sure what there is to interpret about one of the world’s richest countries bombing (on an enormous scale) one of the poorest. Are you aware that at the time of the Cambodia bombings the Nixon administration was _deliberately concealing_ those actions from the American public? The general public didn’t approve of it, _they didn’t know about it_. This was not due to ignoring other countries but because those actions were _deliberately hidden_. Probably because the administration of the time knew that the US public probably _wouldn’t_ approve of the actions. For damn sure the public wasn’t approving of the war in Vietnam at that point. So really, it’s a bad example for your stated purposes even if it is a good example of government corruption and secrecy run amok. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/153 "2015-01-29T17:04:33Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > The whole group thing is a bit screwed up-you can bet that fully 60 percent (number pulled out of my ass) of the group will do/have done NOTHING Sounds like the social dynamics will be completely unchanged from my normal working environment. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/154 "2015-01-29T18:38:34Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > But where are you going to go? Obviously, a medieval reenactor would go \*backward in time. \* Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/155 "2015-01-29T19:08:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Are you aware that at the time of the Cambodia bombings the Nixon administration was _deliberately concealing_ those actions from the American public? The general public didn’t approve of it, _they didn’t know about it_. This was not due to ignoring other countries but because those actions were _deliberately hidden_. Probably because the administration of the time knew that the US public probably _wouldn’t_ approve of the actions. For damn sure the public wasn’t approving of the war in Vietnam at that point. > > So really, it’s a bad example for your stated purposes even if it is a good example of government corruption and secrecy run amok. Indeed. The point is that it was hardly the first such scenario of the US government bringing (or assisting in creating) societal collapse in other countries, so maybe a more vigilant public would have resulted in the US not getting involved in Southeast Asia to begin with. Also, much of the opposition to the war was really just opposition to the draft. Dying in vain is very controversial, but killing in vain is much less so. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/156 "2015-01-29T19:15:02Z")
> [@grude](#): > > 😕Spousal immigration is pretty much the easiest aside from child of a citizen almost everywhere, why is it a non-starter? A lot of countries even have laxer laws than the USA and allow the spouse of a citizen to reside there while applying for permanent residency. I have a life and family of my own here. I am not abandoning my daughter (who lives mostly with her mother) or my elderly mother. Further, I have a job I can’t just r-u-n-n-o-f-t and leave when it looks like things maybe-might be going bad. If I misjudge, now I’m unemployed. Lastly, my in-laws are, themselves, very elderly and not in good health. They aren’t poor, but they also aren’t in a position to house and feed 6 or 8 refugees. While I have assets, much of what I have isn’t liquid enough to be of use in a foreign nation during a severe crisis. “Have dual citizenship” as advice coming from somebody who already has it due to marriage, has (apparently) prosperous in-laws overseas, and (apparently) has nothing here that can’t be abandoned on short notice, is advice that is nigh on useless to anybody who doesn’t have exactly that situation already. It’s like advice from a Rockefeller on what to do if your car breaks down: Why, you just take one of your other cars, silly!" ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/157 "2015-01-29T20:19:16Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Plus, you might need a friend. Just in case. 😃 …and they might need a source of fresh meat. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/158 "2015-01-29T20:37:48Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > “Have dual citizenship” as advice coming from somebody who already has it due to marriage, has (apparently) prosperous in-laws overseas, and (apparently) has nothing here that can’t be abandoned on short notice, is advice that is nigh on useless to anybody who doesn’t have exactly that situation already. It’s like advice from a Rockefeller on what to do if your car breaks down: Why, you just take one of your other cars, silly!" It’s not that much more ridiculous than buying a couple hundred acres of land out in the country that you can go hunker down on, which is something that a lot of preppers aim for. That’s something that’s just not feasible for a good % of Americans. I wonder if the problem here is that you’re thinking we’re poking fun at disaster preparedness, when the OP and the rest of us here are clearly talking about _doomsday_ preppers. See, from the OP: > [@](#): > > Preppers take **very seriously** the idea that we are at **significant risk** of a **complete collapse of US society** You said you haven’t watched the show Doomsday Preppers, and maybe neither you nor people you know really qualify. The people I know who I refer to as preppers talk about The End of Times, and they talk about how their survival skills and the equipment they have might be useful in the end of times. However, I’ve no way of knowing if that’s just idle fantasy entertainment like when I watch The Walking Dead with my friends, or if they really think that there’s a **significant risk** of total societal collapse. I think **even sven** ’s point is that for someone who really does think that there’s a significant risk of the total collapse of US society, having foreign connections is probably a fantastic idea. We’ve seen from the breakdown of other governments that getting the fuck out of dodge has proven to work wonders, whereas (as others have pointed out) I’m not sure we’ve seen the same benefit to having some gold in a cabin out in the woods. So even though getting dual citizenship is hard, and having some foreign connections might not come naturally to some people, if you really think the US is going to collapse, isn’t that worth the effort? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/159 "2015-01-29T21:03:42Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I wonder if the problem here is that you’re thinking we’re poking fun at disaster preparedness, when the OP and the rest of us here are clearly talking about _doomsday_ preppers. See, from the OP: > > You said you haven’t watched the show Doomsday Preppers, and maybe neither you nor people you know really qualify. The people I know who I refer to as preppers talk about The End of Times, and they talk about how their survival skills and the equipment they have might be useful in the end of times. However, I’ve no way of knowing if that’s just idle fantasy entertainment like when I watch The Walking Dead with my friends, or if they really think that there’s a **significant risk** of total societal collapse. People on this board have spoken disparagingly about having so much as a pre-packed overnight bag on hand, so you are no more than partially correct about the problem. I don’t watch the show or even know anybody who does. The people on it may well be religious fanatics or political fringe dwellers or some other group it is safe to mock here. I still suspect that they probably aren’t quite the way the show is edited to present them IRL. Based on what has been revealed about other reality shows, like the one about the Amish Mafia, the whole thing may well be little more than fiction. FTR, I don’t believe one can prep for doomsday. One survives a major asteroid impact or nuclear war or Captain Trips flu by luck of the draw. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769/160 "2015-01-29T21:19:19Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > People on this board have spoken disparagingly about having so much as a pre-packed overnight bag on hand, ??? What thread was that? It certainly wasn’t this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wise-to-scoff-at-preppers-are-their-fears-really-so-outlandish/710769.md?page=9)