Right, there’s no such thing as serious doomsday prep. “Doomsday” should mean apocalyptic events, existential threats to humanity on Earth. Certainly a few people look to this end, but their ‘preparations’ tend to be of a religious nature.
“The collapse of US society,” whatever form that takes, should not be remotely close to doomsday. Though I can certainly imagine scenarios for such that make flight to another more-or-less developed country either impracticable or of little value.
Getting back to the OP…
The ‘simplest’ scenario I see with very broad and serious ramifications: a sustained energy crunch. Ever seen the truckers’ slogan, “if you bought it, a truck brought it”? Imagine what would happen if the cost of overland transport increased dramatically. This could play out different ways depending how, and how quickly, it happens–but there’s no denying it would mean a massive reshaping of life in America.
Well, that thread is about bugout bags, not “pre-packed overnight bags,” and specifically (per the OP) one “designed to get you out of an emergency situation and allow you to survive self-contained for up to 3 days.” And even still most people in that thread seem to have some sort of disaster prep covered, and many do indeed have a bag with some supplies.
I mean, I’m not opposed to the idea of bugout bags in theory, but I think people take the idea* way too far* in terms of actual survival gear because they want an excuse to buy cool gadgets. And, what’s this? Someone agrees with me!
Anyway, we’re all talking about “collapse of society” folks and you’re saying that we’re anti-overnight bags. I’m not sure how we resolve this disparity of perception.
I know!
Uh…
So there it is!!!
Neither am I…especially 42 years later, and on this thread.
When it gets to the point that gold and silver are so easily disdained, then you are at the point where the things that you have mentioned will be so unaffordable that they may as well be gold; further, there will be none of those things left, anyway. And, if you check the warlords around the world, and the local goons in such regions, in today’s world,in circumstances as I have described, you will find that gold and silver are, indeed, quite valuable.
BTW, isn’t the “City of Ember” a fantasy??
Maybe gold and silver have little value for totally isolated groups surviving only by “scavenging.” But, as several people have said in different ways, how likely is that? As an enduring condition? Isn’t it far more likely, and infinitely more desirable, that people will survive any eventuality as interlinked communities? How did/do scattered small communities of limited technology organize their cooperation? Barter of one valuable good for another is fine, when adjacent settlements happen to have what each other need (our corn for your leather)–but there is a tool that has, historically, enabled commerce among many more parties across much greater distances.
No, you can not hold people responsible for something they are prevented from knowing. This wasn’t ignorance due to laziness, it was ignorance due to active concealment.
No, I don’t think a more vigilant public would have done squat since, like I said, there was active concealment of what was going on.
And so what if much of the opposition to the war was opposition to the draft? It was still opposition to the war. If you can’t get enough volunteers to shoot people in other lands then maybe you shouldn’t be having a war, right?
Ain’t no fairies, magic, and pixie-dust in the Ember series. It’s post-apocalyptic fiction, and the scenario is something that, while not likely at all (humanity was almost totally wiped out–Sparks is mentioned as being the biggest settlement in what is implied to be the entire western half of the former United States, and has a population of a whopping 322 at the start of the book), is still possible.
Being a realistic post-apocalypse scenario, it’s an ideal one to blow holes in the “gold!” argument.
In Sparks, there are plenty of things that are valuable - non-gas/non-electric gardening and farming supplies (including seeds), clothing, soap, building supplies (this becomes especially important when the old supermarket building Sparks uses as a storehouse experiences a partial roof collapse), work animals, food, matches (the fact the Emberites have matches and the Sparks people don’t is a moderately important plot point), bicycles and bicycle supplies, and other such stuff that’s actually useful post-apocalypse.
The roamer arrived with jewelry, some of which was real gold. Nobody traded for it except for one person, who, it’s implied, is one of Sparks’ local “eccentric” “crackpots”, because the others saw it and was impressed, but had no practical use for it. To them, it was just shiny stuff that they could not use to farm with or use to start fires in the wintertime.
Food has intrinsic value because humans need it to survive. Same reason water has intrinsic value.
Pedal vehicles (and cargo trailers for such for carrying stuff) have intrinsic value because they’re a form of transport that beats walking, has no animals to depend on, and requires no fuel other than a human that’s eaten enough recently.
Et cetera, et cetera.
In a TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario, the fact gold has no actual intrinsic value will make it worthless. RationalWiki says it best on their article blowing up all the libertarians’ “gold standard FTW!” arguments:
“Not likely at all” does not go so well with “realistic.”
Lots of Jews during the 1930s thought the way you did. The ones who survived the 30s are the ones who managed to make it out of Europe, most of those that stayed behind ended up dead.
The point is, lots of Jews did have money and goods stashed away, it didn’t do much good when they were arrested and hauled off to the camps. And sure, firearms were useful to the holdouts in the Warsaw Ghetto, but they eventually got massacred anyway. How likely is it that you’re going to be singled out for liquidation in the event of social upheaval here in the United States? Not very likely, sure.
Look, the real plausible scenarios are a local disaster that takes weeks to dig out of, or a long term slow-moving economic crunch that puts people out of work with no way to earn enough money to meet their basic needs, alongside a tax revolt that makes it impossible to get public assistance. In both of these scenarios having food and tools on hand is going to be a very good thing. In neither case would barricading your windows and shooting at anybody and who sets foot on your property be a good idea.
Who said anythimg about barricading and shooting? That kind of stuff keeps getting argued in this thread, despite nobody proposing it.
That’s why I wanted to back up, chronologically. The “secret bombing” of Cambodia was indeed concealed from the public, but it only occurred after the US had already been attacking that region for several years. More importantly, this was hardly the first such episode in the history of American foreign policy, which is why I think of the “fool me once vs. fool me twice” saying. If the public cared more, and this was reflected in their elected representatives, such concealment (and such actions!) would hopefully not be possible, if even considered at all!
After the draft was ended, the bombing continued. There might not have been enough volunteers to do the shooting, but there were enough volunteers (or paid professionals, and let’s consider the “poverty draft”) to rain death from the sky, creating the situations that this thread is asking about. There’s only so much one can do to prepare for wave after wave of airstrikes.
Such things can be prevented, in theory.
The thread where I said “I don’t personally think a bug-out bag makes sense for my individual circumstances.”
I think I may have also mentioned that I’ve had one before, when I lived in a remote area. Pretty strange behavior for a bug-out bag hater,.
Just kinda following this thread.
When my (late) father was freaking out about Y2K, he bought both my brother and I each 5000 rounds of .22lr. That could be ‘currency’ or food.
I’ve other guns (given to me over the years) and 40lbs of .356 rifle rounds that can take down any animal in North America. I should stock up a little on shotgun shells.
Anyway, I don’t have a bug out bag. Not planning on going anywhere if such a thing would happen. My family would come to me. If possible.
We have a fresh water spring that runs year round, and while it may get a bit chilly, our passive solar home always stays warm. Or warm enough. (provide it’s not a nuclear winter scene, then we are all screwed.
So. Really what must be thought of for survival is - shelter (got it) water (got it) and then food. Not enough of that I suspect. We always have a month or so of food in the house, though it would get very boring.
No problem cooking, as I am surrounded by the national forest. Wood.
None of this was intended for the end of the world, just the way we live. But we would be in pretty good shape, compared to many others.
Yes, it does.
No TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario is likely. Not a one. Any given person has a higher chance of kicking the bucket while taking a shit than to experience a truly apocalyptic scenario.
But it could happen, including one like in Sparks.
Is a black hole taking a “leisurely stroll” through our solar system and devouring the Earth likely at all? Nope. But is it possible? Hell yes, it is!
What is likely are disaster scenarios that would disrupt things for a while, but not be apocalyptic. These are things like tornadoes and tornado outbreaks, floods, blizzards, ice storms, earthquakes, et cetera.
But that’s not what I’m talking about, nor is it what the thread’s about. The thread’s about people who “prep” for apocalyptic scenarios, and my particular focus is on why gold would be worthless post-apocalypse.
Look, honestly? Gold is only really useful for a bug out situation where you need to use it to bribe guards to get out of somewhere. It really has no particular use in a nonindustrial society that is running on the barter system. Drugs, booze, seeds, preserved food and ammo are infinitely better barter goods. One reason that I have no interest in gold and gems as investment items. I would buy gold in the form of 1 gm ingots for jewelry making purposes, but that is about it.
Not wise to scoff. Was watching some documentary on some nation (Romania? Dammit I wish I could remember which country it was) that had become communist- they interviewed some old guy who said that only those folks that owned a goat or cow SURVIVED during the revolution (this was within the last 50 yrs or later too lazy to look it up) anyway- this was a civilized country where people were just like in USA, you know, “normal” and they suddenly had to figure out how to make soup out of old shoes and furniture.
Imagine that! Had you not an animal that gave milk you literally would have starved to death.
Always prep. During a hurricane I was one of the few in my neighborhood that had plenty of gas, charged electronics, food, water etc etc. I always “prepped” not to extreme but for emergencies. I called it my “hurricane plan”.
You can’t lose if you’ve got a goat or cow, if all of a sudden the bank card computer system went down, what would you do?? Haven’t you read the news about all the so called “hacking” of retail stores debit card systems? What if someone hacked your bank card and your acct left with zero? would you be able to eat?
Think about a world that suddenly lost all computer communication - hey it COULD happen. Anything can happen.
And that is relevant… how?
Because the US had already attacked Cambodia they public was supposed to magically know about a deliberately concealed bombing campaign? That makes no sense whatsoever.
Sorry, corruption doesn’t work that way. Plenty of very wholesome-seeming people with good public records turn out later to be rotten at the core. Again, you hold people responsible for not knowing what they can’t know.
The day the draft ended that did NOT mean all the draftees were sent home. They still had to finish their service. Are you 12, that you need this explained to you?