# It is wrong to bring guns to a protest **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751 "2010-04-20T15:38:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/21 "2010-04-20T17:26:58Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > With respect Why? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/22 "2010-04-20T17:27:42Z")
Too many people don’t know the difference between a right and a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/23 "2010-04-20T17:33:27Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > With respect - come on, guys. No one is arguing that these folks should not have been _permitted_ to bring their guns to their demonstration. And with equal respect, I think you are mistaken. **Czarcasm** and **Zebra** are saying things like this - > [@Zebra](#): > > Probably worse is that it is an inherent threat of violence. They are like organized crime demanding protection money. They are, in my opinion, terrorists. So people who carry weapons to a protest are “thugs” and “terrorists”, threatening and like the Mafia. But the belief that the government might try to stop them from all this is paranoid and stupid and insincere. :rolleyes: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/24 "2010-04-20T17:38:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I no longer accept “Sincerity” as an excuse because too many people think it is a virtue to be ignorant as long as they are sincere. > As far as bringing guns to protests? In my opinion, when you bring a weapon you are not protesting-you are threatening. You are saying, “If my words won’t convince you, my weapon _will_.” By the same token they could be saying, “If my small penis won’t convince you I’m a man, my huge gun will!” ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/25 "2010-04-20T17:39:08Z")
It’s a good idea in that it accomplishes what the protesters intended. That being to bring to a head discussion about gun rights. People protest everyday about all manner of things. Being armed sets them apart and gets people talking. Gun owners are often and easily demonized, many times by their own acts. Bringing gun rights issues forward has the potential to raise awareness and to decrease stigmatization. Similar in goal I believe are gay rights marches. If you go to a gay pride parade in SF you’ll see all manor of behavior which you probably wouldn’t see ordinarily. Yes, ass-less chaps should be legal, but I’m not a big fan. People engaging in groping or making out is probably in bad taste, but I see it done as a protest to raise awareness. In that it succeeds. There’s a lot of talk about potential for violence - is there any manifestation of that? This seems like a popular argument against gun rights without a lot of evidence. The right to arms is a civil right. I wish defenders of other civil liberties would treat the right to arms similarly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/26 "2010-04-20T17:43:06Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > With respect - come on, guys. No one is arguing that these folks should not have been _permitted_ to bring their guns to their demonstration. I’m saying that their conduct was legal, but assinine. It was assinine because guns are not mere protest placards (even strongly worded ones), a crowd with guns is qualitatively different from a crowd with banners, and that it’s incredibly inappropriate to bring a loaded gun to a word-fight. The unarmed, peaceful protest is a hallmark of democracy - the armed protest, even when not violent, is not a part of that tradition. The chorus of protests suggesting that the behavior is … ill-advised… all are filled with sage wisdom about how dangerous such behavior is. My comment was intended to puncture that pretension by reminding the audience that despite the dire fears, these protests have not been the cause of a single gunshot injury or death. Given this fact, I’d invite those people to consider that perhaps they are weighing their own fear of firearms so heavily that it is influencing their ability to accurately judge the risks associated with this behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/27 "2010-04-20T17:43:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And with equal respect, I think you are mistaken. > > **Czarcasm** and **Zebra** are saying things like this - So people who carry weapons to a protest are “thugs” and “terrorists”, threatening and like the Mafia. Correction: I am saying things like the things I say. Go play the “in other words” game with someone else, please. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/28 "2010-04-20T17:43:38Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Why? Well, why not? I believe both of the posters I quoted to be reasonable men, thus worthy of respect. Moreover, **Bricker** is a fellow attorney, and quite a sharp one - I disagree with the fellow’s politics, but he’s got a keen grasp of the law, does a good job of explaining it, and provides a very valuable service to the Board in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/29 "2010-04-20T17:52:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I no longer accept “Sincerity” as an excuse because too many people think it is a virtue to be ignorant as long as they are sincere. > As far as bringing guns to protests? In my opinion, when you bring a weapon you are not protesting-you are threatening. You are saying, “If my words won’t convince you, my weapon _will_.” I believe you. That IS your opinion. But it has little basis in reality. You define as threatening the mere act of a civlian (versus a police officer or soldier, I imagine) carrying a firearm, so, by definition, their behavior is threatening. Any objective measure of threat, though, shows your opinion has no real basis. You cannot point to any increase in violence as the result of a congregation of gun-rights protestors. You can’t point to a single injury attributed to such protests. Indeed, I could more credibly claim that anti-globalization protesters are more threatening than gun-rights protesters, because injury and property damage HAVE resulted from their protests. But I suspect that despite your deeply religious commitment to evidence and science when it comes to, say, global warming, and your scorn at those who disregard hard evidence in that field, you will struggle mightily to reject this assertion for reasons that are grounded completely in irrational fear and NOT hard evidence. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/30 "2010-04-20T18:02:57Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Well, why not? I believe both of the posters I quoted to be reasonable men, thus worthy of respect. One of them is, as a rule. Neither of the quoted responses was reasonable or worthy of respect, though. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/31 "2010-04-20T18:03:10Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s a good idea in that it accomplishes what the protesters intended. That being to bring to a head discussion about gun rights. People protest everyday about all manner of things. Being armed sets them apart and gets people talking. Gun owners are often and easily demonized, many times by their own acts. Bringing gun rights issues forward has the potential to raise awareness and to decrease stigmatization. You think that showing up as an armed and angry mob (_literally_) is going to _decrease_ stigmatization? But then, I’m kind of dubious about the whole “exposure will breed acceptance” argument in general, despite the way that nudie mags have caused the laws against indecent exposure to all be struck down, so my opinion may be biased. But then, so might the protesters’ opinions be, if destigmatization is actually their goal here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/32 "2010-04-20T18:04:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I believe you. That IS your opinion. > > But it has little basis in reality. You define as threatening the mere act of a civlian (versus a police officer or soldier, I imagine) carrying a firearm, so, by definition, their behavior is threatening. No, I do not, and have not ever done so. I was commenting _solely_ on bringing arms to a protest not as self defense but as protest itself. This is yet another version of “In other words”, and I find it intellectually dishonest at best. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/33 "2010-04-20T18:04:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The chorus of protests suggesting that the behavior is … ill-advised… all are filled with sage wisdom about how dangerous such behavior is. > > My comment was intended to puncture that pretension by reminding the audience that despite the dire fears, these protests have not been the cause of a single gunshot injury or death. > > Given this fact, I’d invite those people to consider that perhaps they are weighing their own fear of firearms so heavily that it is influencing their ability to accurately judge the risks associated with this behavior. **Bricker** , I concede that the risk of these protests resulting in injury or death is small, though I do believe it is elevated above the risk posed by an unarmed protest. My real concern is not so much with violence as much as my belief that a large, armed crowd is intimidating by its nature, and that the use of such a crowd - even a nonviolent one - for political ends represents a very disturbing change in our political culture. I used to live a couple blocks from the Israeli Embassy to the US, when I was in law school. As you can imagine, large and vehement demonstrations there were far from uncommon. However, I never felt the slightest unease walking past these demonstrations to pick up some much-needed Red Bull, or even talking to the demonstrators, because I knew that these were unambiguously peaceful protests, and that it was unlikely anyone there could seriously harm me even if they wished to do so. Do you truly not see how this sort of protest is qualitatively different? A normal protestor exposes himself to debate, argument, even ridicule, from passers-by - it’s the cost of participating in the process in this way. But a crowd of armed protestors is a disturbing thing to approach, much less interact with. I’m not saying these guys shouldn’t have been allowed to do their thing. I think they shouldn’t have _chosen_ to do this thing. And lest you think I’m just ragging on them for being right-wing, I can easily think of any number of left-wing demonstrations I’ve seen that have been pretty darned questionable. (Though not as bad as this, I think.) > [@Shodan](#): > > And with equal respect, I think you are mistaken. > > **Czarcasm** and **Zebra** are saying things like this - So people who carry weapons to a protest are “thugs” and “terrorists”, threatening and like the Mafia. > > But the belief that the government might try to stop them from all this is paranoid and stupid and insincere. :rolleyes: > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t agree that these folks are “terrorists” - but I would point out that the position that “bringing guns to a protest is akin to terrorism” is distinct from “gun ownership should be banned.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/34 "2010-04-20T18:11:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, I do not, and have not ever done so. I was commenting _solely_ on bringing arms to a protest not as self defense but as protest itself. This is yet another version of “In other words”, and I find it intellectually dishonest at best. Very well. I’ll take you at your word. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/35 "2010-04-20T18:15:50Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > **Bricker** , I concede that the risk of these protests resulting in injury or death is small, though I do believe it is elevated above the risk posed by an unarmed protest. My real concern is not so much with violence as much as my belief that a large, armed crowd is intimidating by its nature, and that the use of such a crowd - even a nonviolent one - for political ends represents a very disturbing change in our political culture. But the belief that a large, armed crowd is intimidating must arise from some fear, right? That is, intimidation is the inference that you will be subject to some objectionable consequence, is it not? In this case, I suggest that the obvious inference you would have the reader draw is that you fear armed response – that at some point, the large armed crowd would use their weapons. If this is not the case, then what’s the difference between an equally large, unarmed crowd? And my rejoinder is that the numbers don’t support that inference. I can point to plenty of left-wing protests that have turned violent, to greater or lesser degrees, but you can’t actually identify a single instance in which your inchoate fear has been realized. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/36 "2010-04-20T18:16:17Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You think that showing up as an armed and angry mob (_literally_) is going to _decrease_ stigmatization? I dont know if it will or not. I know it has the potential to cause a backlash. The status quo however will likely move as a result of continued similar protest. The protesters probably believe it will move in their favor. Acceptance of gun ownership and gun rights have been increasing in the past several decades so perhaps they are right. The gun rights movement is gaining ground, albeit slowly. Consider this and the possibility of personal bias when it comes to interpreting the appropriateness of these types of events. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/37 "2010-04-20T18:16:41Z")
I’m not going to comment on whether it’s “right” or “wrong” to bring guns to a protest in general, but in this particular case, they _ **are** _ right-wing gun-rights advocates. I suppose they could have been considering teddy bears and My Little Pony’s as their prop of choice, but that would have just been weird, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/38 "2010-04-20T18:20:42Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > But then, I’m kind of dubious about the whole “exposure will breed acceptance” argument in general, despite the way that nudie mags have caused the laws against indecent exposure to all be struck down, so my opinion may be biased. But then, so might the protesters’ opinions be, if destigmatization is actually their goal here. Destigmatization was not the goal of _this_ demonstration. This particular event was intended to be provocative, and it was obviously very successful in its intended purpose, especially in relation to the small number of participants. For efforts intended at destigmatization (or “normalization”), you probably want to look at the “open carry” movement, who are likewise asserting their right to bear arms, but mostly express it in terms of wanting it to be _unexceptional_ to see armed private citizens in public places. It is already unexceptional for armed private citizens to _be_ in public places; all American readers of this forum have passed among and interacted with such armed citizens virtually every day they’ve gone out in public. The difference is that almost all of those people were carrying _concealed_ weapons, so many folks still freak out at the _sight_. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/39 "2010-04-20T18:21:41Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I dont know if it will or not. I know it has the potential to cause a backlash. The status quo however will likely move as a result of continued similar protest. The protesters probably believe it will move in their favor. Acceptance of gun ownership and gun rights have been increasing in the past several decades so perhaps they are right. > > The gun rights movement is gaining ground, albeit slowly. Consider this and the possibility of personal bias when it comes to interpreting the appropriateness of these types of events. And I think that toting to a protest is likely overstepping the bounds of the ground they’ve gained, and is unlikely to foster good will in the non-participating observers. Again, I suppose I _could_ be wrong, but even based on this thread I think from an acclimatization standpoint the only people who will be favorably influenced are those already in the choir. And maybe not even all of them. > [@DCnDC](#): > > I’m not going to comment on whether it’s “right” or “wrong” to bring guns to a protest in general, but in this particular case, they _ **are** _ right-wing gun-rights advocates. I suppose they could have been considering teddy bears and My Little Pony’s as their prop of choice, but that would have just been weird, wouldn’t it? Er, signs, and no other ‘props’? No wait, that could never work. No protest could ever get by with signs and no other props. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751/40 "2010-04-20T18:23:58Z")
You need costumes, too. Didn’t any of those guys show up with their cammies and their face paint, too? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-is-wrong-to-bring-guns-to-a-protest/536751.md?page=3)