# It isn’t a copyright violation, but it looks/sounds like it is. Examples in fiction. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100 "2005-09-23T18:33:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/1 "2005-09-23T18:33:15Z")
There is a man dressed like the 60 incarnation of [the Riddler](http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/7537/Riddler.htm) in the video to [Nik Kershaw](http://kershaw.online.ie/home.cfm)’s song, The Riddle. There was a face that looked like that of the [Green Goblin](http://www.ezydvd.com.au/g/i/p/221417.jpg) adorning the grill of the Truck in [Maximum Overdrive](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_Overdrive) I always wonder if these were intentional. (Probably) Also, ever time I hear some one quoting the lyrics “our house is a very very very fine house”, I think to myself, “Are they quoting the song by Crosby, Still, and Nash, or the complely diffrent song by the ska band Madness?” These may be intentional. They may not be. Tell me, what examples do you have that made you think, “How did they get permission to use that?”, “Nah, couldn’t be” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/2 "2005-09-23T18:44:36Z")
The Green Goblin in **Maximum Overdrive** was not only intentional, but if you check the credits, you’ll find that they even got permission from Marvel to use it. I think Stephen King wanted his Evil to have a face. The Green Goblin truck waas certainly better and more effective than the teeny tiny bulldog on the Mack truck in the same film. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/3 "2005-09-23T19:08:32Z")
D’oh! :smack: Ok then, I suppose I should have titled the thread “It may be a copyright violation, or may not be…” ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/4 "2005-09-23T19:11:22Z")
We’ve been over this before, **Scott**. You can’t copyright a character. You can trademark a character, but you can’t copyright one. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/5 "2005-09-23T19:12:23Z")
You want “as close to the copyright as possible?” Check out your local costume store. It’s always worthwhile saving a few pennies with artful relabeling. Like the “so close you can touch it” costumer of “Malice de Mal” who’s virtually “Cruella de Vil”. Or the “Death Invader” costumes that are “Darth Vader”. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/6 "2005-09-23T19:16:16Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > We’ve been over this before, **Scott**. You can’t copyright a character. You can trademark a character, but you can’t copyright one. Look, it is just a convenient term. I started a thread asking about this very subject. I haven’t forgotten. I suppose I could have called it, “This may be reuse of characters, lyrics, or themes in fiction, or it may not be.”, but that would be a little long for a title. I could have used the term trademark, but would have left out themes and plots. P.S. CalMeacham, thank you for the examples. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/7 "2005-09-23T19:21:20Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Look, it is just a convenient term. I started a thread asking about this very subject. I haven’t forgotten. > > I suppose I could have called it, “This may be reuse of characters, lyrics, or themes in fiction, or it may not be.”, but that would be a little long for a title. I could have used the term trademark, but would have left out themes and plots. > > P.S. CalMeacham, thank you for the examples. Copyright. 9 letters. Trademark. 10 letters. Yes, using the right term would have been so much harder. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/8 "2005-09-23T20:17:58Z")
Absolutely. After all, it’s not like we’re supposed to fighting ignorance here or anything. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/9 "2005-09-23T20:24:35Z")
:smack: Mods, can we either move this to the pit, or have the title of the thread changed to “trademark violation”? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/10 "2005-09-23T20:25:48Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I suppose I could have called it, “This may be reuse of characters, lyrics, or themes in fiction, or it may not be.”, but that would be a little long for a title. I could have used the term trademark, but would have left out themes and plots. I see that you’re still confused about when intellectual property is governed by copyrights and when it is protected by trademarks. Hint: Characters are trademarkable. Song lyrics are copyrightable. Themes are not protected by either trademarks or copyrights, and neither are plots. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/11 "2005-09-23T21:09:23Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > I see that you’re still confused about when intellectual property is governed by copyrights and when it is protected by trademarks. No, I think you have confused me with someone who cares. I figured that people would understand I was using a specific legal term to mean something quite generic, and would not get their panties in a wad about it. I figured wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/12 "2005-09-23T21:11:57Z")
Ever see a film and think that the plot was lifted whole-cloth from another movie, so much so that you though it was the other film? Ever watch an episode of Space: Above and Beyond, and think the robot troopers helmets were taken from Cobra Troopers in live action G.I. Joe commercials? Ever hear the same lyric in two unconnected songs and wonder about a possible connection? If so, I would like to hear about it! ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/13 "2005-09-23T21:32:40Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Or the “Death Invader” costumes that are “Darth Vader”. IMO, Darth Vader was an obvious swipe from Marvel’s [Dr. Doom](http://www.toonopedia.com/docdoom.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/14 "2005-09-23T22:17:36Z")
> [@Art Vandelay](#): > > IMO, Darth Vader was an obvious swipe from Marvel’s [Dr. Doom](http://www.toonopedia.com/docdoom.htm). When my ex was trying to drag me to see _The Matrix_, I kept thinking of Plato’s Allegory of the Cave. _Star Trek_’s original series was Hornblower in space. There’s no way to say that that doesn’t sound dirty, is there? _Star Wars_ was basically a swipe of a japanese film I watched LAST FREAKING NIGHT yet have forgotten the name of because of my incipient dementia and am too lazy to look up. The last several seasons of Voyager included far too many plots lifted from Next Generation and far too few shots of B’lanna Torres naked. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/15 "2005-09-23T23:28:04Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > _Star Wars_ was basically a swipe of a japanese film I watched LAST FREAKING NIGHT yet have forgotten the name of because of my incipient dementia and am too lazy to look up. _The Hidden Temple_, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/16 "2005-09-24T07:10:27Z")
> [@Art Vandelay](#): > > IMO, Darth Vader was an obvious swipe from Marvel’s [Dr. Doom](http://www.toonopedia.com/docdoom.htm). Sorry, nope. _Star Wars_ isn’t a comic book homage, it’s (mostly) a 1930s Sci-fi serial homage. Darth Vader is a nod in the direction of [The Lightning](http://sepnet.com/rcramer/pictures/fidevild.jpg), the villain of the Republic serial [_The Fighting Devil Dogs_](http://www.scifilm.org/musings2/musing866.html). Rick McCallum made the helmet/mask more samurai-looking to fit the Kurosawa stuff, but The Lightning is the starting point. **Tracy Lord** – close – _The Hidden Fortress_. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/17 "2005-09-24T15:11:24Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > Copyright. 9 letters. > Trademark. 10 letters. > > Yes, using the right term would have been so much harder. :wally ```auto C O P Y R I G H T T R A D E M A R K 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ``` Apparently even less hard than you thought it was… :wally ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/18 "2005-09-24T15:51:47Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > ```auto > > C O P Y R I G H T > T R A D E M A R K > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 > > ``` > > Apparently even less hard than you thought it was… :wally :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isn-t-a-copyright-violation-but-it-looks-sounds-like-it-is-examples-in-fiction/323100/19 "2005-09-24T18:19:39Z")
After getting frustrated with dealing with copyright issues for song lyrics she quoted in her books, Florence King began making up songs and titles that sounded like the songs she wanted.