# It isn't FRANCES, it's FRANCIS!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119 "2004-09-04T16:09:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/21 "2004-09-04T19:36:17Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > On a tangential note, any reason why the names are all French, or French-like, recently. > > Gaston? How many Americans are named Gaston? Hermine? Now Frances? Of course, Frances is not particularly French, that I know of, but it’s just France with an “s” on it. Any anti-French sentiment showing up here? Well, maybe we’ll find out later in the alphabet when Hurricane Surrender shows up. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/22 "2004-09-04T19:45:01Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > But sometimes the “funny spelling” is accurately the original, like Caitlin (pronounced Kat’-LEEN, though Jazzmine’s older sister was Katelynn, spelled and pronounced like that). My wife has a problem with the name “Shawn” – the proper spelling for that pronunciation is Sean. I could swear the actual proper spelling is Seann, with an accent over one of those vowels, but my cite is at work. He’ll be back late tonight. Amusingly enough, my dead grandmother’s first name (as opposed to that of my life grandmother) was Frances. When she came over to the USA from France, she had to have a birth certificate made, and the name on it was Francis. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/23 "2004-09-04T19:49:54Z")
The sole anti-French attitude enshrined in the names Francis and Frances is that of 13th-century Umbria. You see, when Pietro Bernardone got rich, he bought a lot of luxuries for his family, including fine clothes for his son Giovanni, who became known as “Frenchy” (Francesco in Italian) as a result. However, going off to war and a few other experiences caused Giovanni to have a religious epiphany and to become a man devoted to the Evangelical Counsels of poverty, humility, and obedience. And a lot of people, in Umbria and elsewhere, flocked to follow him, in his native Assisi and elsewhere. And folks named Frank, Francis, Frances, Francisco, Francesco, Francesca, Francois(e), etc. are named after St. Francis of Assisi, or after someone named after him. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/24 "2004-09-04T20:03:01Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, maybe we’ll find out later in the alphabet when Hurricane Surrender shows up. 😃 The hurricane names are taken from the languages commonly spoken in the hurricane area, thus English, French, and Spanish. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/25 "2004-09-04T20:06:08Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > And folks named Frank, Francis, Frances, Francisco, Francesco, Francesca, Francois(e), etc. are named after St. Francis of Assisi, or after someone named after him. [Paul Harvey] And now you know the rest … of the story.[/Paul Harvey] ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/26 "2004-09-04T20:16:10Z")
My great-grandmother, Frances, is staying in Orlando right now due to Frances. If it were FrancIs, it wouldn’t be nearly as funny. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/27 "2004-09-04T20:22:34Z")
And your Nana Nana Frances is presently sitting in the lobby of her Orlando motel demanding her own private room! Oh well, at 94 you can be ornery. Not that she was different at 64. Or at 14, from what I’ve been told! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/28 "2004-09-04T20:25:33Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > And folks named Frank, Francis, Frances, Francisco, Francesco, Francesca, Francois(e), etc. are named after St. Francis of Assisi, or after someone named after him. That’s quite interesting, **Polycarp**. Forty seven years of being named Francis and I never knew the origin. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/29 "2004-09-04T20:54:25Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Forty seven years of being named Francis and I never knew the origin. St. Francis wasn’t the proto-Francis. It was already a common name by the time he got ahold of it. It’s a shortening of the latinate _Franciscus_, which means “French dude.” > [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I did actually google this before I posted it. “Frances” does have more hits than “Francis”, but not overwhelmingly so. You need to refine your Google technique While there are a similar number of pages that contain both words “Francis” and “Hurricane” as contain both words “Frances” and “Hurricane,” you will see that there are only 2,760 results returned for the _phrase_ [“Hurricane Francis”](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Hurricane+Francis%22&btnG=Search) but 209,000 results for [“Hurricane Frances”](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Hurricane+Frances%22&btnG=Search). People aren’t as dumb as you might think. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/30 "2004-09-04T20:57:25Z")
(I guess it’s too late to pretend that I read any more of **Poly** ’s post that the part that you quoted. _C’est la vie._) ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/31 "2004-09-04T22:54:54Z")
> [@Arnold Winkelried](#): > > ILike “My name is Bob, spelled Boob, but pronounced Bob” Bob? Odd name for a girl, innit? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/32 "2004-09-05T00:01:17Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > It might also be a good idea for parents to realize that their baby is going to grow up someday, and Timi or Riki is going to be quite embarrassed at using that name as a candidate for County Sheriff or on a technical paper. I read a suggestion once that people should try out the name in the sentence “The Honorable Justice \ was sworn in this morning,” both orally and in print. And if it doesn’t work, rethink the name. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/33 "2004-09-05T00:02:55Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I wouldn’t get my knickers in a twist if it were just ordinary people making this mistake. After all, Francis isn’t that common a name anymore. But when I see the same error being made in prominent TV shows and newspapers, it just sticks in my craw, I tell you. You know, I tried to point out your error in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274638) yesterday. So please untwist your knickers, disgorge your craw and move on, friend. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/34 "2004-09-05T00:10:55Z")
> [@Ms Boods](#): > > Bob? Odd name for a girl, innit? > > 😃 BOB, like what you call a guy without limbs, in the water? …that doesn’t sound right. anyhow…I’ll squirm outta here… ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/35 "2004-09-05T00:12:56Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > BOB, like what you call a guy without limbs, in the water? > > …that doesn’t sound right. > > anyhow…I’ll squirm outta here… heh…I’m not thinking fast enough tonight. I happen to be a Robert Francis… 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/36 "2004-09-05T00:35:58Z")
> [@polycarp](#): > > But sometimes the “funny spelling” is accurately the original, like Caitlin (pronounced Kat’-LEEN, though Jazzmine’s older sister was Katelynn, spelled and pronounced like that). My wife has a problem with the name “Shawn” – the proper spelling for that pronunciation is Sean. > > It might also be a good idea for parents to realize that their baby is going to grow up someday, and Timi or Riki is going to be quite embarrassed at using that name as a candidate for County Sheriff or on a technical paper. My SIL asked me to look up someone’s number on her cell phone so I was scrolling through all the names she had saved when “Chane” popped up on the screen. “Chain?” I said aloud. “Oh, that’s my friend Shane” she said “His name is spelt C-H-A-N-E. He gets upset if people spell it wrong.” I replied “His PARENTS spelt it wrong.” That is the stupidest spelling of Shane that I’ve ever seen. His parents must be morons. To try to make a post that in some vague way relates to the OP, my Great Grandmother’s middle name was Frances and my mother’s middle name is Frances to honor her. There was also an uncle named Francis. I’ve known that Frances is female, Francis is male since I was a child and so it always blows me away to meet adults who don’t know the difference, but there seem to be a lot of them out there. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/37 "2004-09-05T03:28:11Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > (I guess it’s too late to pretend that I read any more of **Poly** ’s post that the part that you quoted. _C’est la vie._) Serves you right, Larry! 😉 Regarding Chane, perhaps that family knew the family of the bookkeeper my son used to work with, whose sons were named Chaun and Channon – both pronounced with an Sh- sound. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/38 "2004-09-05T04:15:41Z")
I had a student named _Jauckque._ ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/39 "2004-09-05T04:35:13Z")
My aunt, a teacher and principal, had a student named Velveta, of all things. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119/40 "2004-09-05T05:37:38Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > My aunt, a teacher and principal, had a student named Velveta, of all things. That’s a pretty cheesy name! Was it intentional or just a touch of feta? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-frances-its-francis/263119.md?page=3)