# It isn't Natural for a Parent to Bury a Child **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 16, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739 "2019-08-16T14:29:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/1 "2019-08-16T14:29:15Z")
No, this isn’t about my recent post about a kid nearly being run over by a train, thanks to the idiot father. I was listening to a forensic documentary this morning, about the Queen’s coroners in London. In it, one of the death cases was a suicide of a woman in her twenties, in which some official had to speak to the parents of the victim. And the voiceover repeats a phrase that just irks me everytime I hear it. And as I watch a lot of these types of TV shows, I hear it a lot. “You know, it’s so difficult to talk to the parents in cases like this because when you’re a parent, you expect to be, you know, buried by your children. It isn’t natural for a parent to have to bury a child.” Excuse me, but nature is all about burying your kids. It’s modern medicine that’s made it a rare occurrence. In the old days, hardly a family was untouched by child mortality. Shakespeare lost a twelve year old son. Kipling lost a young daughter. Abe Lincoln lost two boys, and Mary Lincoln lost three. Calvin Coolidge lost a sixteen year old son to an infected blister. My own family on my mother’s side lost two pre-pubescent children to disease in the 1920’s. Their names were Richard and Annelise. (Not sure of the spelling on that last one.) Okay, I know that things are different now, but the history lover in me just hates an inaccurate phrase that constantly comes up when you talk about dead kids. And talk about dead kids comes up more often than you would imagine it does. Three cheers for modern medicine, expensive as it is. And vaccinate, people!! Don’t be stupid and bring back the epidemics of old. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/2 "2019-08-16T16:39:28Z")
It’s an expression. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/3 "2019-08-16T17:34:33Z")
Bodies of children should be thrown into forests for scavengers to deal with. Very natural, circle of life… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/4 "2019-08-16T17:36:14Z")
It was much more common, yes, but that doesn’t mean it was any less painful for the surviving parents, or was ever thought “natural”. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/5 "2019-08-16T17:44:26Z")
Natural is probably not the best choice of words there. Hemophilia is natural. Immunizations against measles are not natural. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/6 "2019-08-16T17:52:39Z")
It was just as hard for the parents back then as it is now. The Roman politician Cicero lost a daughter and later wrote “I wept without ceasing” and “my sorrow defeats all consolation”. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/7 "2019-08-16T17:54:09Z")
I’ve never heard it phrased as “it’s not natural”. I’ve only heard it said as “A parent should never have to bury their child.” Which seems to imply more that it’s such a sad, tragic occurrence for a parent that nobody should have to go through that. To say it’s “not natural” is odd phrasing. It seems to imply more that it’s abnormal, freakish, or irregular. I don’t think that’s something I would ever say to a grieving parent. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/8 "2019-08-16T17:57:43Z")
The promise of new life that sits squarely on a new babe’s shoulder is not trifling. The people I know who have lost a baby or child say it is the most painful thing they’ve ever dealt with. But, you’re correct. The phrase is over-used. ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/9 "2019-08-16T18:00:59Z")
I’ve heard people say “It’s not natural”, but I parse that as “It’s not normal”. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/10 "2019-08-16T18:17:05Z")
> [@campp](#): > > I’ve heard people say “It’s not natural”, but I parse that as “It’s not normal”. Yes, I’ve heard “not normal” too, and phrased that way, it doesn’t set my teeth on edge quite so much. By the way, I wouldn’t contradict anyone who used that sentiment while speaking to a grieving parent. I’m not that anal. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/11 "2019-08-16T18:20:19Z")
When I told my doctor about the death of my son, he said “That’s not the normal order of things.” True in today’s medical world, but far from true in cases of addiction. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/12 "2019-08-16T18:44:21Z")
Nothing feels natural about your child dying. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/13 "2019-08-16T21:24:25Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Excuse me, but nature is all about burying your kids. It’s modern medicine that’s made it a rare occurrence. In the old days, hardly a family was untouched by child mortality. > > Shakespeare lost a twelve year old son. Kipling lost a young daughter. Abe Lincoln lost two boys, and Mary Lincoln lost three. Calvin Coolidge lost a sixteen year old son to an infected blister. My own family on my mother’s side lost two pre-pubescent children to disease in the 1920’s. Their names were Richard and Annelise. (Not sure of the spelling on that last one.) Yes, but the “natural” way of losing children in the past was for them to die in infancy or childhood, as your own examples illustrate. It was never normal or typical for elderly parents to have to bury healthy adult children, except perhaps in time of war. I’ve always understood this cliche to be intended in the sense of _“once your children are grown and you’re getting old, you expect that they’ll bury you. It’s not natural for you as the aging parent of a thriving adult to have to bury them”_. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/14 "2019-08-16T23:49:31Z")
Do you think that if you had to bury a child you’d look back and say well, Shakespeare did it? Shakespeare scholars think he talked about his lost son a lot in his works. Hamnet and Hamlet are unlikely to be a coincidence; they were not common names. Lots of other writers from that period talked with great grief about the loss of their children. It was more common, but it didn’t seem like it was strange to mourn the loss of a child. That’s what we aim for, to have our children live and do well and outlive us. Elephants mourn dead babies. It’s not like it’s weird to mourn a dead child or feel sympathy for people who have. Nowadays it’s even less common so they’re experiencing something most people don’t. There might also be a legislative aspect to this, depending on the year it was made. In 2018 there was an act passed: [Children’s Funeral Fund for England - GOV.UK](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/childrens-funeral-fund-for-england) That’s about children under the age of 18. But the language in it might have carried over to other judgments. Note, from that link, that: The Prime Minister said: No parent should ever have to endure the unbearable loss of a child – a loss that no amount of time will ever truly heal. If you’re someone on the internet where the people affected will never see what you say, you can be objective. But to do that in front of a bereaved parent? I doubt you could. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/15 "2019-08-17T00:20:32Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Bodies of children should be thrown into forests for scavengers to deal with. > > Very natural, circle of life… It is entirely seemly for a young man killed in battle to lie mangled by the bronze spear. In his death all things appear fair. - Homer ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/16 "2019-08-17T00:56:41Z")
What’s natural and expected is that the next generation will ultimately replace the last. Therefore the child should -in the expected way of things- be burying their parents, not the other way around. That’s why it’s not natural. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/17 "2019-08-17T01:49:46Z")
I never said it was strange or weird to mourn a child, or that people in the past didn’t grieve for their lost kids. Hell, the Victorian Era was obsessed with death. But I do believe death is as natural as birth. Talk about weird, have you seen Victorian death photo videos on Youtube? They would prop the deceased up and paint eyes on the closed lids. In some of them, they would pose the family around the body, and it’s hard to tell who the dead one is. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/18 "2019-08-17T02:54:04Z")
“it’s every parent’s dream to outlive their children.” -Homer Simpson ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/19 "2019-08-17T02:54:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It is entirely seemly for a young man killed in battle to lie mangled by the bronze spear. In his death all things appear fair. - Homer If only our Civilization hadnt researched bronze working. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739/20 "2019-08-17T16:13:06Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > If only our Civilization hadnt researched bronze working. :smack: This is why we need spear control. Won’t someone think of the children? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-isnt-natural-for-a-parent-to-bury-a-child/838739.md?page=2)