# It may be time for Americans to consider splitting up the UNITED States of America **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 6, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994 "2018-01-06T19:14:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/21 "2018-01-06T23:29:16Z")
> [@BlueMerle](#): > > Are you suggesting that we don’t have the right to flip the finger at people from other countries that do criticize us like they do when we criticize them? Nah, first amendment an all that, have at. Just makes you look like a hypocrite, but you have the right to do that. > [@](#): > > Are are an apologist? Ummm, what now? Assuming you meant to type the words “are you an apologist?” you still don’t say what it is you are accusing me of apologizing for. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/22 "2018-01-06T23:31:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Remind us again where you would draw the lines? 😉 > > [Link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_America#/media/File:2016_Presidential_Election_by_County_(Red-Blue-Purple_View).png) This is for the OP, too. Where I would draw them? Well, I live in trump country, so as long as they annex my house, I’m happy however they go about it. ---
**Author:** ![BlueMerle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BlueMerle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueMerle)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/23 "2018-01-06T23:34:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Nah, first amendment an all that, have at. > > Just makes you look like a hypocrite, but you have the right to do that. > Ummm, what now? Assuming you meant to type the words “are you an apologist?” you still don’t say what it is you are accusing me of apologizing for. Makes me look like a hypocrite? When, specifically, did I say he didn’t have the ‘right’? I’ll wait here while you show that to me. I just flipped him the finger… 1A and all that… Oh, and ISTR that you ignore facts that don’t fit your opinion… like the fact that SCOTUS has defined what ‘people’ means in 2A. I wonder if that fits your definition of hypocrite? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/24 "2018-01-06T23:36:24Z")
> [@BlueMerle](#): > > So you’re cool with gerrymandering as long as it benefits your political views? 1. That isn’t gerrymandering. Wiki is your friend if you can’t remember grade school. 2. Of course. I’ve never made any secret of the fact that I am biased as fuck. 3. Cascadia Forever! ---
**Author:** ![BlueMerle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BlueMerle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueMerle)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/25 "2018-01-06T23:37:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > 1. That isn’t gerrymandering. Wiki is your friend if you can’t remember grade school. > > 2. Of course. I’ve never made any secret of the fact that I am biased as fuck. > > 3. Cascadia Forever! lol… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/26 "2018-01-06T23:45:51Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I’ve paid attention to elections since Kennedy, but never have I ever felt hopelessness. Perhaps that says more about you than about any particular US election. Our system is robust enough to survive Trump. No need to purposely destroy the US in order to save it. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/27 "2018-01-06T23:59:59Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I’ve paid attention to elections since Kennedy, but never have I ever felt hopelessness. It’s not about you. seriously, I see a lot of complaining from those on the more liberal side about how Trump and divisiveness means everything hopeless. I see a lot of complaining from those on the conservative side how things like immigration, refugees, etc. are throwing this country and those in Europe down the toilet. Here’s the thing- you (and I) will be on this planet for about 70-80 years or so. This country has been around for 200+ years. The various European societies have been around in some form or another for a lot longer. Our own personal existences are nothing more than a _blip_ in the grand scheme of things, and neither you nor I (nor anyone else) has any divine authority to declare how “things should be.” Boomers especially seem to have this idea that they’re specially important and that the way they think this country was in their youth is the “Right Way” which should be preserved forever. The world was here for a long time before we showed up. It will be here for a long time after we die. It will be different, but nothing can stop that. No president, no congress, no Prime Minister, no dictator. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/28 "2018-01-07T00:29:42Z")
I don’t see it. The decline in the US politics has been going on as long as I’ve been alive. It may result in some fighting but the blood shed will all be in the courts and some small exchanges in the streets. A full-blown civil war requires a dedication and unity of purpose I don’t see from any faction these days. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/29 "2018-01-07T00:33:32Z")
The thing about gerrymandering is that it has become such a science that the Republicans, in order to maximize their seats have cut the margin of victory in many districts down to the point where it could be overwhelmed by a “wave election”, such as 2018 might be. ---
**Author:** ![BlueMerle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BlueMerle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueMerle)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/30 "2018-01-07T00:36:56Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > The thing about gerrymandering is that _both parties do it when they can._ FYP ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/31 "2018-01-07T00:49:22Z")
The pipe dream of secession has been bandied about ad nauseam since the election of President Trump, with the left saying they want to leave the U.S. and take their entertainment industry with them, and the right saying don’t let the doorknob hit you in the butt. The problems would be many. 1. Secession didn’t work so well the last time the Democrats tried it, again largely out of a desire to have people of color continue to provide them labor at low cost. It would be just as unlikely to work for them this time, too. 2. What would you do to the people in Bluelandia who remain loyal to the U.S. Constitution and DON’T want to secede? Drive them out at bayonet point? What if they don’t recognize your new government? 3. What happens to those people who receive social security benefits in The United Blue Safe Space Republics when the U.S. government refuses to recognize their new country and won’t provide benefits to people who are considered treasonous? They might have something to say about this. 4. What happens to the sizable population of veterans in the People’s Snowflake Republic? You can received veteran’s benefits when you move to a new country, but not when you give up your U.S. citizenship. That terminated veteran’s benefits. 5. Who gets control of the military and naval and port facilities? Don’t expect the United States to give them up. Were this to happen, expect any monuments to the insurrectionists to be torn down, and your descendants to avoid bringing what you did up in conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/32 "2018-01-07T01:11:07Z")
Dude, if you right wingers don’t like how you get trounced in the 2018, 2020, 2022, 2024, and future elections stretching as far as the eye can see, feel free to move to.a country more amenable to your kind, like Russia. I’m sure they’ll put out the welcome mat for you. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/33 "2018-01-07T01:29:11Z")
Given how the Russians have been financing and running phony state secession orgs this last year, I have to suspect anyone who pushes this idea of carrying a Russian agenda. After all, what better way to destroy America as the #1 power in the world than to give aid and succor to the forces of disintegration and separation? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/34 "2018-01-07T01:30:39Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Not if you do it right. Admit Canada as 11 new states. That’s 22 new Senators and what, 11 new Representatives? > [@BlueMerle](#): > > So you’re cool with gerrymandering as long as it benefits your political views? Admitting Canada as 11 states rather than 1 wouldn’t be gerrymandering by definition. It (assuming it was to be done) would also make much more sense that admitting it as one state. Ontario with a population 13 million would be the 5th largest state. Quebec would be 13th largest. Only two of the 11 provinces would be smaller than Wyoming. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/35 "2018-01-07T01:50:22Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Dude, if you right wingers don’t like how you get trounced in the 2018, 2020, 2022, 2024, and future elections stretching as far as the eye can see, feel free to move to.a country more amenable to your kind, like Russia. I’m sure they’ll put out the welcome mat for you. That remains to be seen. But we’re not talking about how we will react. We’re talking about how some people on the left (a small but loud minority, probably) feel that because the political pendulum has swung the opposite way after 2 elections, there is a need to secede from the Union or something. I can’t recall many Republicans saying they were going to move to another country or try to secede when President Obama ran. That’s pretty much left-wing turf. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/36 "2018-01-07T01:51:28Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Given how the Russians have been financing and running phony state secession orgs this last year, I have to suspect anyone who pushes this idea of carrying a Russian agenda. > > After all, what better way to destroy America as the #1 power in the world than to give aid and succor to the forces of disintegration and separation? So you’re saying the Democrats are colluding with Russia? Wow! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/37 "2018-01-07T01:53:32Z")
**Mod Note** > [@E-DUB](#): > > The thing about gerrymandering is that it has become such a science that the Republicans, in order to maximize their seats have cut the margin of victory in many districts down to the point where it could be overwhelmed by a “wave election”, such as 2018 might be. > [@](#): > > The thing about gerrymandering is that both parties do it when they can. > [@BlueMerle](#): > > FYP Hi, **BlueMerle** , I see you’re relatively new to the Dope. Welcome! You should be aware that altering the content of another poster’s quote, or falsely attributing a quote to a poster within a quote box, is against the rules here. Quote boxes are sacred. The consequences for doing this may include an official warning. Please do not do this again. No warning issued. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/38 "2018-01-07T01:55:05Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > There’s been interest on the west coast for a Cascadia nation (CA, OR, WA), but it’s just noise. The apparent inability of large swathes of Portlandians to pump their own gas does not speak well for their ability to mount a secession movement. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/39 "2018-01-07T01:55:44Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > I can’t recall many Republicans saying they were going to move to another country or try to secede when President Obama ran. That’s pretty much left-wing turf. There were petitions in at least 19 states to do exactly that in 2012. Texas alone had 64,000. I assume most of the signatories were Republicans, and that many of them were not being frivolous. ---
**Author:** ![BlueMerle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BlueMerle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueMerle)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/40 "2018-01-07T02:39:07Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > **Mod Note** > > Hi, **BlueMerle** , I see you’re relatively new to the Dope. Welcome! You should be aware that altering the content of another poster’s quote, or falsely attributing a quote to a poster within a quote box, is against the rules here. Quote boxes are sacred. The consequences for doing this may include an official warning. Please do not do this again. > > No warning issued. Fair. Thank you. I won’t happen again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994.md?page=3)