# It may be time for Americans to consider splitting up the UNITED States of America **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 6, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994 "2018-01-06T19:14:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/61 "2018-01-07T17:19:11Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > All Canada could give you in the senate is 2 senators. No it would give 26 new senators and 24 of them would be Democrats. And loads of new representatives. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/62 "2018-01-07T17:31:21Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > No it would give 26 new senators and 24 of them would be Democrats. And loads of new representatives. since we’re talking about things which are never going to happen anyway, what makes you assume the existing provincial layout would stay the same? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/63 "2018-01-07T19:34:22Z")
One of our biggest problems is that are splits aren’t really regional - it isn’t a North South thing. Or even a Coast Midwest thing. Its a rural urban thing. Rural Oregon is nearly as conservative as Texas and urban Georgia is nearly as liberal as New York. Problem two - our government was created to give rural communities a little more power - thank you Thomas Jefferson and his ilk and their vision of rural (slave holding) society to be superior to the dirty business of commerce. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/64 "2018-01-07T20:06:41Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > No it would give 26 new senators and 24 of them would be Democrats. And loads of new representatives. The three northern territories together have less population that Guam. It’s unlikely they would be granted two Senators each. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/65 "2018-01-07T20:09:33Z")
Splitting up? Ain’t gonna happen. We’ll incorporate Canada first, to the detriment of both countries. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/66 "2018-01-07T20:54:19Z")
I don’t see any downsides for America actually. And little downside for Canada except of course being forced to accept toxic waste. (Actually the downside would be if the extra liberal votes would not be enough to force the Organization of North American Nations to adopt current liberal policies. In the long-term of course the policies would eventually be changed and co-opted until there would be again two even parties with a different mix of policies than they currently have.) But yeah, not happening. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/67 "2018-01-07T21:58:53Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The three northern territories together have less population that Guam. It’s unlikely they would be granted two Senators each. The best plan for the territories would be to incorporate them into Alaska. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/68 "2018-01-07T22:13:36Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > As a liberal progressive Canadian , the past year has been very worrisome for me as I have watched the political drama unfolding in America. > > I no longer have any faith in America to lead the world into a better future. My level of devastation at your angst knows no bounds. ☹ I’m pretty sure there’s nothing in the Prime Directive prohibiting liberal progressive Canadians from lighting their own candles to lead the world out of these dark and forbidding times. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/69 "2018-01-08T01:35:52Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’m pretty sure there’s nothing in the Prime Directive prohibiting liberal progressive Canadians from lighting their own candles to lead the world out of these dark and forbidding times. We’re [working on it](https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/01/05/liberals-hatch-plan-to-stop-trumpism-fix-income-inequality.html). If Trudeau and Wynne don’t mess up too much _cough_ Morneau _cough_ power plants _cough_… ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/70 "2018-01-08T01:49:57Z")
We gain more from being united than from being divided. The freedom individuals have to travel and move between states is far more important than who gets to run the federal government, which has more limited authority over our lives than do the states in which we live. And living in a state currently controlled by the Democratic party is no guarantee that it will always be so. One need only look at my home state of Maine, which for the first time ever, split its electoral votes in 2016 when the northern part of the state voted for Donald Trump. The world needs more freedom of movement, not less. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/71 "2018-01-08T02:17:12Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > We gain more from being united than from being divided. The freedom individuals have to travel and move between states is far more important than who gets to run the federal government, which has more limited authority over our lives than do the states in which we live. > > And living in a state currently controlled by the Democratic party is no guarantee that it will always be so. One need only look at my home state of Maine, which for the first time ever, split its electoral votes in 2016 when the northern part of the state voted for Donald Trump. > > The world needs more freedom of movement, not less. I spoke with a real estate agent in Northern Arizona today who said that about 70% of his current clients are south Californians who are looking to flee the exorbitant taxes, the loss of the state tax deduction on the federal return, retirees who are looking for a place to use their stock earnings, and probably other factors. The real estate market there is shooting up as a result, but I’m not crazy about the influx of left wing social values in Arizona. No offense intended to anyone here. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/72 "2018-01-08T02:28:22Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > I spoke with a real estate agent in Northern Arizona today who said that about 70% of his current clients are south Californians who are looking to flee the exorbitant taxes, the loss of the state tax deduction on the federal return, retirees who are looking for a place to use their stock earnings, and probably other factors. The real estate market there is shooting up as a result, but I’m not crazy about the influx of left wing social values in Arizona. No offense intended to anyone here. South Dakota is also getting Californians for often the same reasons mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/73 "2018-01-08T02:38:14Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > South Dakota is also getting Californians for often the same reasons mentioned. As the old joke goes: That helps increase the average IQ of both places. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/74 "2018-01-08T02:39:32Z")
this isn’t really much different than those silly “Calexit” threads we had shortly after the 2016 election. Those threads were full of assumptions like “Californians are all of one mind” (which they aren’t) and “we can just vote to leave but everything that benefits us will still stay the same” (it wouldn’t.) Likewise, Canadians aren’t all of one mind. I live in the Detroit area and spend plenty of time in various places in Ontario. I know a number of folks from there who are just fine with a guy like Trump, and are pissed as hell at things like how much electricity costs even in spite of those numerous wind turbines which have been constructed. Look- any act of secession or attempted annexation _will lead to shooting._ ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/75 "2018-01-08T15:42:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As the old joke goes: That helps increase the average IQ of both places. 😉 We can live without California attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/76 "2018-01-08T15:52:41Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > I sincerely believe that Civil War II is coming. I’m putting the odds of bloodshed before January 20, 2020, at 90%. 1-20-2020 isn’t terribly significant. It is 1-20-2021 where the next non-Kremlin-selected president takes office. > [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Again, nor should they. America and Canada (along with such bastions of human freedom as China, North Korea, Vietnam and Myanmar) are among the very few members of the world community that allow elective abortions after 20 months, a practice that most European nations look upon as barbaric. Public opinion on the morality of abortion has been swinging gradually away from the unrestricted practice of abortion over the last few decades, especially among the young, and that is a good thing. Even atheists like George Orwell and Christopher Hitchens saw abortion as an assault on the dignity of humanity. You need not be religious to oppose it Nobody allows abortions after 20 months. Most of North America, Europe, and Asia allow unrestricted abortions up to 12 weeks. > [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > 1. Secession didn’t work so well the last time the Democrats tried it, again largely out of a desire to have people of color continue to provide them labor at low cost. It would be just as unlikely to work for them this time, too. > > 2. What would you do to the people in Bluelandia who remain loyal to the U.S. Constitution and DON’T want to secede? Drive them out at bayonet point? What if they don’t recognize your new government? > > 3. What happens to those people who receive social security benefits in The United Blue Safe Space Republics when the U.S. government refuses to recognize their new country and won’t provide benefits to people who are considered treasonous? They might have something to say about this. > > 4. What happens to the sizable population of veterans in the People’s Snowflake Republic? You can received veteran’s benefits when you move to a new country, but not when you give up your U.S. citizenship. That terminated veteran’s benefits. > > 5. Who gets control of the military and naval and port facilities? Don’t expect the United States to give them up. > > Were this to happen, expect any monuments to the insurrectionists to be torn down, and your descendants to avoid bringing what you did up in conversation. 1- The Democratic racists who ran the South for generations all became Republicans. 2- It wouldn’t be the citizens of Bluelandia who would be totally cool with Putin deciding elections. 3- What makes you think the blue states wouldn’t carve out that portion of the US federal government that are rightfully theirs? It’s the red states who would have to learn how to live without sucking the teats of blue states. 4- I assume that Blue State veterans would also be considered US veterans. After all, it’s blue state taxes and blue state politicians that made these benefits possible. 5- Ports, bases, and soldiers would be apportioned on basis of geographic location. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/77 "2018-01-08T15:58:48Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > No it would give 26 new senators and 24 of them would be Democrats. And loads of new representatives. It is ridiculous to think any of the territories, or Prince Edward Island, would merit statehood. It is equally ridiculous to assume to result of any elections. if Maine can elect a Republican, so could Ontario, British Columbia, or New Brunswick. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Nobody allows abortion after 20 weeks. Canada does, as has already been stated. Canada allows abortion at any stage; you could abort in Week 39. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/78 "2018-01-08T16:14:49Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It is ridiculous to think any of the territories, or Prince Edward Island, would merit statehood. > > It is equally ridiculous to assume to result of any elections. if Maine can elect a Republican, so could Ontario, British Columbia, or New Brunswick. > Canada does, as has already been stated. Canada allows abortion at any stage; you could abort in Week 39. Actually I was referring to ArizonaMike’s statement that that China, Vietnam, and North Korea allow it up to 20 _months,_ which is of course quite silly as it would be near the child’s first birthday. Barring ArizonaMike’s typo (or maybe not?), I think it’s fair to say that 12 weeks is about par for legal abortion in the west. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/79 "2018-01-08T16:16:06Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > ] Nobody allows abortions after 20 months. Most of North America, Europe, and Asia allow unrestricted abortions up to 12 weeks. Typo. 20 weeks, obviously. But we are one of the few nations that still allow elective abortions up to 20 weeks. > [@](#): > > 1- The Democratic racists who ran the South for generations all became Republicans. Like Senator Byrd? Or the Democrats who, through their social policies, devastated the black community and black families? Pull the other one. > [@](#): > > 2- It wouldn’t be the citizens of Bluelandia who would be totally cool with Putin deciding elections. They seem to be okay with Putin’s minions passing information to Hillary’s oppo research team, through Steele and Fusion Research, to try to decide an election. > [@](#): > > 3- What makes you think the blue states wouldn’t carve out that portion of the US federal government that are rightfully theirs? It’s the red states who would have to learn how to live without sucking the teats of blue states. Who decides what is rightfully theirs? It would come to war if the People’s Republic of Calistan attempted to seize a submarine base. I also doubt that the military forces available to California’s governor (the National Guard) would follow illegal orders to secede from the Union. That was settled during the Democrat’s first attempt to secede. > [@](#): > > 4- I assume that Blue State veterans would also be considered US veterans. After all, it’s blue state taxes and blue state politicians that made these benefits possible. Snowflakelandia could decide to continue veteran’s benefits and social security benefits out of its own purse, along with all the other entitlements they want. The United States would be under no obligation to pay them, nor would veterans be eligible. I’m sure the wealthy classes would be happy to see their taxes vastly expanded to support the new state. Especially if the President declares a state of national emergency and freezes all accounts held by Snowflakelandia’s citizens in any banks, funds, trusts, or accounts outside their borders. > [@](#): > > 5- Ports, bases, and soldiers would be apportioned on basis of geographic location. By whom? As a self-declared sovereign nation, The Social Justice Poeple’s Collective would have to negotiate any such actions while large numbers of their citizens actively resisted their secession for doubtful benefits, and citizens considered the possibility that they could be executed for treason if (when) the whole leftist fantasy collapsed. There are a lot of Californians who take extreme pride in being American citizens. What would possibly make them want to be turncoats? So wealthy Californians can still afford to pay substandard wages for their nannies and the people who pick the kale they buy at Whole Foods Market? Look at the counties in California that DID swing for Trump. What makes you think they would accept second class citizenship when the California flag became the bloody rag of secession? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994/80 "2018-01-08T16:17:53Z")
> [@](#): > > They seem to be okay with Putin’s minions passing information to Hillary’s oppo research team, through Steele and Fusion Research, to try to decide an election. Is that what happened? Neat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-may-be-time-for-americans-to-consider-splitting-up-the-united-states-of-america/805994.md?page=5)