# It seems inevitable that US schools will soon need to teach about Islam. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050 "2014-11-08T06:28:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/61 "2014-11-09T05:07:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Another that studied the world religions in history. I graduated high school in 1996 (Pittsburgh). > > Maybe **Der Trihs** slept through his history class? Nah. Maybe he didn’t trust the teachers because they were {shudder} _Americans_. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/62 "2014-11-09T05:19:17Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I’m surprised to see so many here apparently claiming that they received an adequate working knowledge of the tenets and culture of Islam, and the global roles of various religions, in American public schools. Who claimed that? We just said we were taught something about it. And who is to say what is “adequate”? Adequate for what? > [@](#): > > I certainly didn’t have much idea about what it meant to _be_ a Muslim (of any stripe), or to live in the Muslim world, or what the implications of any of this could be for the West, until I started reading history for myself, and talking to more kinds of people, and paying attention to the world in the light of that. Most people don’t remember how to solve two simultaneous equations. Why wold they remember what it meant to be a muslim, even if they were taught that? Some of you have a weird idea of what the schools need to teach. Exactly how many cultures do we need to teach to the level of what it means to be a member of that culture? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/63 "2014-11-09T05:34:35Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Might have been nice if Bush, Cheney, and Rummy had known. Nailed it in one sentence. To the right wing, Islam is the epitome of evil and one must not give it any legitimacy and there is no need to understand it beyond the point of having pure hatred for it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/64 "2014-11-09T05:48:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Some of you have a weird idea of what the schools need to teach. Exactly how many cultures do we need to teach to the level of what it means to be a member of that culture? Well, how about for starters we cover any grouping with 20%+ of the population? That would seem to me to be a reasonable component of learning what it means to be a human being. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/65 "2014-11-09T06:15:12Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Might have been nice if Bush, Cheney, and Rummy had known. Wait a moment…didn’t Bush say, “We are not at war with Islam”? Seems to me you should say it’d been nice if their supporters knew. But, of course, some of their supporters do happen to know. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/66 "2014-11-09T06:30:18Z")
\*\*John Mace \*\*, I’m perfectly fine conceding that Islam is given a passing reference in school. However, from this thread alone, it is obvious that we’re not doing much of a job of it. It seems like we should produce High School seniors that understand the crisis with ISIS, our relationship with Saudi Arabia, and things like Iran/Contra before we send them to be Boots on the Ground. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/67 "2014-11-09T07:33:35Z")
Heh. It looks like the only folks “not doing much of a job of it” were yours and Der Trihs’ teachers. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/68 "2014-11-09T07:43:59Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Nailed it in one sentence. To the right wing, Islam is the epitome of evil and one must not give it any legitimacy and there is no need to understand it beyond the point of having pure hatred for it. Same as Communists/Russians when I was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/69 "2014-11-09T08:06:25Z")
Obama has assured us that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam and that we won’t have any boots on the ground in that war. Are you calling Obama a liar? Seriously, though, you are arguing for a course in current events, not a course that teaches about Islam. Which course in the senior curriculum do you want to displace with a course about current events? And how relevant is that course going to be in 10 years? Twenty years? We get it. You’ve got this grand idea about teaching about Islam. And you’re not going to let go no matter how silly an argument you need to throw up to support it. ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/70 "2014-11-09T08:32:22Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > \*\*John Mace \*\*, I’m perfectly fine conceding that Islam is given a passing reference in school. However, from this thread alone, it is obvious that we’re not doing much of a job of it. It seems like we should produce High School seniors that understand the crisis with ISIS, our relationship with Saudi Arabia, and things like Iran/Contra before we send them to be Boots on the Ground. The level of training you’d need to have a real understanding of those issues, though, is way more than could be taught in high schools. If you read that essay I linked to on the first page, is that something like what you envision should be happening? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/71 "2014-11-09T08:49:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama has assured us that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam and that we won’t have any boots on the ground in that war. I seriously doubt that the Prez meant that IS had nothing to do with Islam but rather that IS is not representative of all Islam. In other words, every time you look at a Muslim don’t see the IS terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Contemporary\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@Contemporary\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contemporary_Logic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/72 "2014-11-09T11:46:44Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > If for no other reason than teach the difference between Sunni and Shia. > > In order to produce kids able to understand the modern world and compete in it, the American School System will very soon need to say\* something\*. > How do you think that should/ will work out? Inserting new material into the curriculum will mean taking other material out. What material would you suggest is less relevant for U.S. students than learning about different Islamic denominations? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/73 "2014-11-09T12:36:43Z")
> [@Contemporary\_Logic](#): > > Inserting new material into the curriculum will mean taking other material out. What material would you suggest is less relevant for U.S. students than learning about different Islamic denominations? Cursive? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/74 "2014-11-09T12:42:33Z")
Has the quality of California High School history curriculum approved enormously since the mid-60’s?? I went to public schools considered good, but almost everything I know about history I learned from independent reading. Any mention of Islam or any (dare I say it?) Oriental religions in Freshman World History were very brief. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/75 "2014-11-09T14:36:44Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Cursive? That’s not taught in HS. Besides, you want our kids to not be able to read a good portion of the hand-written text they will encounter in their lifetime? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/76 "2014-11-09T14:40:41Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Well, how about for starters we cover any grouping with 20%+ of the population? That would seem to me to be a reasonable component of learning what it means to be a human being. Islam isn’t a culture. The culture of Saudi Arabia is not like the culture of Indonesia. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/77 "2014-11-09T15:14:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Islam isn’t a culture. The culture of Saudi Arabia is not like the culture of Indonesia. No shit. It’s a cultural grouping, as I said. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/78 "2014-11-09T15:50:26Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > No shit. It’s a cultural grouping, as I said. What the hell is a “cultural grouping”? Is that a term used by actual social scientists, or something you invented for the occasion? There are ethnic groups, but “Islam” isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/79 "2014-11-09T16:58:53Z")
Jesus and Mohammed. Look, you understand that “cultures” aren’t all at equivalent levels, or demarcated on the same terms, right? Some are much bigger than others, some are subsets of others, some have much clearer boundaries than others, and all of them have many intersections. Ethnicity is one kind of cultural grouping, but there are a bunch of other widely-recognized demarcators, such as religion. I’m saying, if there is any cultural grouping, any widely-recognized subset of humanity which comprises such a substantial slice of all of us… it seems odd and provincial not to try to teach kids something about what that means. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050/80 "2014-11-09T17:16:18Z")
Ok, it’s a term you invented for the occasion. I thought so. I’ll stick to terms that actual social scientists use instead of folk-science terms that are simply going to be used for whatever politically correct currents are popular at any given time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-seems-inevitable-that-us-schools-will-soon-need-to-teach-about-islam/704050.md?page=5)