# It should be ilegal to smoke on the street. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434 "2011-01-05T01:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/221 "2011-01-13T19:24:52Z")
> [@godix](#): > > Oh christ. Didn’t we already go through this? Cite that outdoor second hand smoke, in a realistic situation, directly affects your health. I gave cites indicating support for the contention that outdoor tobacco smoke can be and is likely harmful to human health in many common circumstances (including close proximity, etc.). You are taking scientists’ careful phrasing (like “can be,” “is likely”) and taking that to mean that it is at all possible that there is no adverse health effect from outdoor secondhand smoke, a view that, to me, is about as likely as the possibility that scientists were going to find out back in the 1950s that smoking itself is not harmful to human health. No scientific study has ever found any safe threshold for smoking or secondhand smoke. Personally, if I can smell it, I’m being exposed to it, and I’m certain it is harmful to me. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/222 "2011-01-13T19:27:11Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Err…yes it is unhealthy for the children. Ask any mental health professional. You may wish to discern the difference between physical and mental health. But to be fair, I suppose smoking has a strong mental health aspect to it as well. Point conceded. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/223 "2011-01-13T19:30:18Z")
> [@robby](#): > > There’s a big difference here that keeps getting overlooked. > > 1. The obese person scarfing down Big Macs doesn’t directly affect my health and well-being. They are only hurting themselves. On the other hand, a smoker’s secondhand smoke directly affects me and my health. Walking past an individual in the street who happens to be smoking affects your health to such a tiny extent that one can describe it as negligible. One of the grown up things that societies do is accept that other members of society will effect you in detrimental, but small ways. Some things - sure, there’s a good reason to legislate against them. Drunk driving is an obvious example - when it affects you it is not negligible. A guy in the street smoking a cigarette? That’s negligible, and one of the costs of living in a society. Obese people DO affect you in a neglibible way, by the way. They burden health care systems. If you require health care, to a negligible amount, you would be better off if there were no obese people (of course, smokers have the same effect on health care infrastructure; so do motorcyclists). ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/224 "2011-01-13T19:32:38Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > How terribly inconvenient smoking can be for literally everyone involved. :rolleyes: Do you have a point here, or did you just want to roll your eyes? ---
**Author:** ![mckall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@mckall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mckall)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/225 "2011-01-13T19:59:08Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Walking past an individual in the street who happens to be smoking affects your health to such a tiny extent that one can describe it as negligible. I’m late to the party, but I thought I’d give myself a migraine and be one of the smokers to take part in this thread. I can certainly understand if, as you pass by me, I blew my smoke in your face or down your throat. If I chase after you like a steam locomotive throwing light cigarettes in your general direction or I ash in your mouth. Those things I would certainly be on your side over. However, I can not believe that the amount of time and amount of smoke inhaled as you pass by me is any different than the exhaust you breath at a gas station or dirt swirling around as you walk further away from me. I’m as conscientious a smoker as I can be; I do my best to stand down wind and avoid having my smoke swirling about as I talk to someone and anything else I can to minimize the discomfort a non-smoker might have. But to actually sit there and say, with no sense of sarcasm, that I shouldn’t be allowed to smoke on the street? Most places I’ve lived have two sides to the street and if it’s really that much of a health concern; then the exercise you’ll get by crossing said street will only do you good. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/226 "2011-01-13T20:03:05Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Actually you have been dodging the point. > > I cited earlier how air pollution is a serious health risk and that the vast majority of it comes from exhaust from cars and trucks. > > …Driving a car is far more polluting than a cigarette. You keep repeating this even after I produced a cite debunking your whole contention back in Post #184, with quantitative data demonstrating the flaw in the argument. While air pollution from vehicles and power plants may indeed be a larger contributor to overall air pollution, people do not typically spend time in very close proximity (i.e. a few feet) to tailpipes and smokestacks. People do spend significant amounts of time in close proximity to smokers and their cigarettes, however. In addition, we as a society have taken steps to reduce the emissions from vehicles and power plants, by requiring emission control systems for vehicles, scrubbers for power plants, cleaner fuels, and even mundane things like moving the exhaust for city buses from ground level near people to the top of the bus on the side away from the sidewalk. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > …I will say I did an entirely unscientific test on my way to work today. I live in Chicago and work in the Loop (main business district) so I have plenty of opportunity to walk by lots of people. > > I looked for smokers. I saw two. One was standing outside his building and another a woman rounded a corner at the same time I did with a cigarette in her hand. > > In neither case did I detect a whiff of smoke. > > What I did notice, almost constantly, was the smell of diesel exhaust from the numerous buses passing by. > > Even if one were to send a puff of smoke my way it would have been a temporary thing and I’d have to try to get so much as one breath-full of smoke from them before moving out of the way. > > Although I have had puffs of smoke drift my way in the past while outside it is frankly so infrequent and transitory I cannot for the life of me remember even one specific incident. I happened to conduct my own unscientific survey today at lunch. I work in the downtown environment of a mid-sized city (one not nearly as large as Chicago). During my five-block walk to lunch (a 10-minute walk each way), I counted 42 people smoking on the way to lunch, and 35 smokers on the way back. I only counted smokers I actually spotted with cigarettes in hand or in their mouths, and only those in close proximity to me (i.e. within 6 feet or so). They were in doorways, in bus shelters, or just walking down the sidewalk. One was directing snow removal, radio in one hand, and waving a cigarette with the other. I smelled cigarettes almost constantly. During one stretch, where there happens to be four bus shelters in a row, with only about a 4 foot wide opening between the back of the shelters and the adjacent building wall, I encountered continuous cigarette smoke, as bad as anything I’ve ever encountered indoors. Indeed, it was just like it was years ago when cigarettes were still allowed in bars. I was forced to either breathe it all in, or hold my breath for the 30-40 seconds it took to get through it. I also had numerous buses pass by. I did not smell one whiff of diesel exhaust, nor did I encounter any car exhaust. Pretty much the only air pollutant I smelled, and which I encounter every day on these streets, was from cigarette smoke. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/227 "2011-01-13T20:10:42Z")
> [@mckall](#): > > …But to actually sit there and say, with no sense of sarcasm, that I shouldn’t be allowed to smoke on the street? Most places I’ve lived have two sides to the street and if it’s really that much of a health concern; then the exercise you’ll get by crossing said street will only do you good. I’m not being sarcastic at all. I’m as serious as a heart attack (as my stepfather was fond of saying). I sincerely think that smoking in public and on city streets should be banned. I am also confident that we are heading that way, and I will see such a ban in my lifetime. Also, it does no good for me to cross to the other side of the street. The smokers are on both sides of the street. Besides, one side of the street is often closed off either because of construction or like today, because of the danger of falling ice from buildings because of the huge snowstorm yesterday. Finally, isn’t it an infringement of my rights to constantly have to try to avoid smokers? Why can’t I walk down a city street without being exposed to constant cigarette smoke? ---
**Author:** ![mckall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@mckall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mckall)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/228 "2011-01-13T20:51:15Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I’m not being sarcastic at all. I’m as serious as a heart attack (as my stepfather was fond of saying). That’s my point. That you aren’t being sarcastic and truly believe that smoking should be banned on _public_ streets is absurd. Those streets are as rightly mine as they are yours. And given that you are not a captive on said street, why do your rights supercede mine? We both pay taxes that go towards their construction don’t we? > [@](#): > > Also, it does no good for me to cross to the other side of the street. The smokers are on both sides of the street. I find this very hard to believe based on the numbers referred to in this threat about the percentage of smokers. Here’s a breakdown: U.S. population: 307 million Over 20 years old: 225 million (307\*.27) People Who Smoke: 45 million (225\*.2) The population numbers are from the 2009 census and I used the 20% figure from upthread. Now, you’re telling me that every time you walk down the street, both sides are just full of smokers to the point you can’t avoid them? That 45 million people out of 307 million who smoke are generally in your vicinity? > [@](#): > > Finally, isn’t it an infringement of my rights to constantly have to try to avoid smokers? Why can’t I walk down a city street without being exposed to constant cigarette smoke? This is always the million dollar question and it is rarely addressed from any view point beyond a non smokers. If it is an infringement on you to avoid me, as a smoker, why doesn’t the same apply to my situation? Why do I always have to avoid non-smokers? Why do I lose the right to smoke outside, under the bright blue sky, on sidewalks I pay for and is generally large enough to accomidate more than one person? As I stated above, this would be a totally different issue if you were a captive person in regards to smoking. On an airplane, in an office building, a doctor’s office, a theater; all places smoking isn’t, and shouldn’t be allowed. When we’re talking about an outside, public space that I don’t have to purchase a ticket in? I’ll smoke as I please. I don’t need to provide you with ‘clean’ air, so I don’t have to afford you any rights whatsoever. You do have the ability to avoid me, there are areas provided for you to have that clean air, and there is enough public space for you to use that will not force you to breath my smoke. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/229 "2011-01-13T20:55:26Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Do you have a point here, or did you just want to roll your eyes? Now I just want to smack my head. :smack: I suppose you’d find butt disposal options less of issue if you didn’t have to worry about it in the 1st place? Maybe get there 5 minutes early so you can huff one last one down in the privacy of your car and fill up your own trash receptacle? I wonder how convenient it is for the Walmart janitor to sweep up piles of cigarette butts from inconsiderate dolts who seem to think parking lots are perfectly acceptable places to empty their car ashtrays? Convenience, what a concept. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/230 "2011-01-13T21:16:41Z")
> [@mckall](#): > > …Now, you’re telling me that every time you walk down the street, both sides are just full of smokers to the point you can’t avoid them? Yes, that is exactly what I’m saying. I don’t know if more people smoke in the city or not, or if is connected to the demographics of the city, or whatever, but the fact is that I can’t walk down a city street without continually encountering smokers. > [@mckall](#): > > …This is always the million dollar question and it is rarely addressed from any view point beyond a non smokers. If it is an infringement on you to avoid me, as a smoker, why doesn’t the same apply to my situation? Why do I always have to avoid non-smokers? Because you are the one creating the problem. > [@mckall](#): > > …Why do I lose the right to smoke outside, under the bright blue sky, on sidewalks I pay for and is generally large enough to accomidate more than one person? Because you are the one creating problems for other people who also have rights. > [@mckall](#): > > …As I stated above, this would be a totally different issue if you were a captive person in regards to smoking. On an airplane, in an office building, a doctor’s office, a theater; all places smoking isn’t, and shouldn’t be allowed. A crowded city street also creates a captive environment. > [@mckall](#): > > …I don’t need to provide you with ‘clean’ air, so I don’t have to afford you any rights whatsoever. I’m not asking you to provide me with clean air, only to stop polluting the air next to me. > [@mckall](#): > > …You do have the ability to avoid me, there are areas provided for you to have that clean air, and there is enough public space for you to use that will not force you to breath my smoke. On a crowded city street, I do not have enough space to avoid all of the smokers and their individual and collective toxic clouds of pollution. ---
**Author:** ![mckall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@mckall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mckall)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/231 "2011-01-13T21:44:01Z")
It’s a problem for you, yes. However, it’s not a problem for everyone. I think you’re also missing my point above; I can claim the same right to public property as you can and there are alternatives for you to avoid the smoke that is so dangerous to you. And you’re creating a problem for me by asking me to not smoke outdoors, which I vastly prefer to doing indoors. It’s a cyclical argument and all non smokers continue to bleat about is their rights. There are alternative solutions to your ‘problem’ of my smoke in the great outdoors, you simply don’t want to use them. Which, as I said above, I am under no obligation to give you. So I, and the 45 million other smokers, are not violating your rights since we don’t give them to you. You have the right to clean air, certainly, and I could argue I have the right to pollute my lungs if I choose. The amount of smoke you breath in outside while walking down the sidewalk, has to be comparable or lower compared to break dust or exhaust. The latter you’ll breath regardless of smokers or non-smokers on the street. So how do you factor that in? I don’t know what city you live in, but I note that your from Connecticut. To give a comparison, I’m in Vegas with 2 million or so in metro area, and I find myself to usually be the odd man who’s smoking. So I can’t buy your statement that you have streets filled with smokers everywhere, it just doesn’t seem plausible. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/232 "2011-01-13T21:44:01Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Personally, if I can smell it, I’m being exposed to it, and I’m certain it is harmful to me. Proof??? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/233 "2011-01-13T21:51:32Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Interesting how he puts words in the opponents mouth, lacking anything of substance in the way of support for his indefensible position. :rolleyes: > > Even the disinterested observer would of course discern that “I” don’t like it. Way to go Capt obvious! Yes me and the rest of the 80% of the population who don’t like it. Duh. > > Who said smoking should be outlawed “everywhere?” Again, an inane distraction of indignant zeal to deflect attention from the real issue. Quick reminder on the thread topic Stevie: "“It should be illegal to smoke on the street.” i.e. public places, if you can possibly grasp the distinction between public, shared spaces and “everywhere.” > > We, meaning the vast majority and yes, including “I,” fully encourage you and your ilke to choke to death yourselves, family and friends sharing the same PRIVATE spaces. Get a whole group together and have a party - chain smoke, for cryin’ out loud. Every day. Go for it. > > Just keep it to yourself, please. 😃 > [@](#): > > You said: > > Originally Posted by Nadir > Why should I - because you exhort me to? Where does the premise of this debate rest on proving anything about smoking’s health detriments, inside, outside, upside down, one way or the other? … It’s nasty, it stinks, makes your teeth yellow, we don’t like it and you had better keep it to yourself, lest you become legally required to do so. … > > To which I replied: > > So, we FINALLY come down to it. Smoking should be outlawed everywhere because YOU don’t like it. At last a bit of honesty for a change. > > Maybe I should start on my own list of things I don’t like. > Now it’s > > Interesting how he puts words in the opponents mouth, lacking anything of substance in the way of support for his indefensible position. I did not HAVE to put words in your mouth. You already did that for yourself. You yourself are saying, or said before the denial started, to hell with studies or eveidence. You just don’t like it. Flip flop and lie some more, why don’t you. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/234 "2011-01-13T22:41:21Z")
> [@mckall](#): > > That 45 million people out of 307 million who smoke are generally in your vicinity? More than that. One out of every five people smokes. That includes the people who smoke just a few cigarettes a day. He’s saying that both sides of his street are packed with people who are smoking _right at that moment_. > [@robby](#): > > During my five-block walk to lunch (a 10-minute walk each way), I counted 42 people smoking on the way to lunch, and 35 smokers on the way back. I only counted smokers I actually spotted with cigarettes in hand or in their mouths, and only those in close proximity to me (i.e. within 6 feet or so). They were in doorways, in bus shelters, or just walking down the sidewalk. One was directing snow removal, radio in one hand, and waving a cigarette with the other. > > I smelled cigarettes almost constantly. During one stretch, where there happens to be four bus shelters in a row, with only about a 4 foot wide opening between the back of the shelters and the adjacent building wall, I encountered continuous cigarette smoke, as bad as anything I’ve ever encountered indoors. The solution is obvious. Solve the specific problem you’re encountering, and put in a ban on smoking in the bus shelters, or in specific streets where there’s a problem. A universal ban on outdoor smoking is a reductio ad absurdum solution to a problem that doesn’t exist in most of the country–probably not even in most of your city. Please repeat your experiment on a few residential streets and suburban streets. Try it early in the morning or late at night. I would say that most of the time if I walk five blocks, I will encounter a maximum of one cigarette. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/235 "2011-01-13T22:44:29Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Now I just want to smack my head. :smack: That’s nice. A varied program of physical workouts is good for you. > [@](#): > > I suppose you’d find butt disposal options less of issue if you didn’t have to worry about it in the 1st place? That is, quite frankly, none of your business. > [@](#): > > I wonder how convenient it is for the Walmart janitor to sweep up piles of cigarette butts from inconsiderate dolts who seem to think parking lots are perfectly acceptable places to empty their car ashtrays? I dunno, ask him. He’s probably have something to say about picking up dirty diapers and empty beer cans too. Or do you believe that smokers are the only people who litter? Doesn’t matter to me, anyway. When the ashtray in my car is full, it is emptied into the garbage bag in my car; when that’s full, it goes into a trash can at the gas station or at home. > [@](#): > > Convenience, what a concept. :rolleyes: I ask again, do you have a point, or are you only trying to exercise your eyes? I am, despite your desire, allowed to smoke while walking on the street. I am also a smoker who looks for an appropriate place to put my litter. That’s a fair and balanced approach on my part. Your approach is not. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/236 "2011-01-13T22:45:41Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > You may wish to discern the difference between physical and mental health. But to be fair, I suppose smoking has a strong mental health aspect to it as well. > > Point conceded. Huh? You mentioned that sexually molesting a child causes no harm but is illegal anyway. I pointed out that it did, indeed, cause real harm. Why does it matter if it is mental harm? What does that have to do with smoking? Real, tangible harm is being done to the child in this case (hence one of the reasons it is illegal). You can point to no tangible harm, beyond you not liking it, from a smoker having a puff of smoke waft by you on the street. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/237 "2011-01-13T22:52:16Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I happened to conduct my own unscientific survey today at lunch. I work in the downtown environment of a mid-sized city (one not nearly as large as Chicago). > > During my five-block walk to lunch (a 10-minute walk each way), I counted 42 people smoking on the way to lunch, and 35 smokers on the way back. I only counted smokers I actually spotted with cigarettes in hand or in their mouths, and only those in close proximity to me (i.e. within 6 feet or so). They were in doorways, in bus shelters, or just walking down the sidewalk. One was directing snow removal, radio in one hand, and waving a cigarette with the other. Those numbers are astounding. Wherever it is you live pretty much everybody must smoke. I have a shorter walk (two blocks) but am in a larger city and for those numbers to hold true here nearly every person I pass on the street would have to be smoking. Literally… I am considering taking a video while I walk around the Loop (Chicago business district) and posting it to show what a non-issue smoking outdoors is. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/238 "2011-01-13T23:20:46Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > As part of the effort to remove smokers from doorways (which I support, actually), places to put cigarette litter are also being removed. If I happen to be smoking while about to enter a building, I look for an ashtray first, and a trash can second. You’d be surprised how often neither are available. Shit, I flick off the cherry, make sure it’s out, and put it back in the pack. Same for driving too. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/239 "2011-01-14T00:06:21Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > Shit, I flick off the cherry, make sure it’s out, and put it back in the pack. Same for driving too. I’ve been [inspired](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=592950). Well, inspired for a certain definition of inspired, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434/240 "2011-01-14T02:59:55Z")
> [@mckall](#): > > …Now, you’re telling me that every time you walk down the street, both sides are just full of smokers to the point you can’t avoid them? I’m saying that there are enough smokers that I can’t avoid being continually exposed to cigarette smoke. > [@mckall](#): > > …I think you’re also missing my point above; I can claim the same right to public property as you can and there are alternatives for you to avoid the smoke that is so dangerous to you. And you’re creating a problem for me by asking me to not smoke outdoors, which I vastly prefer to doing indoors. I’m not missing anything. You’re complaining about the possibility of no longer being able to inflict the byproduct of your disgusting habit on others. I feel as little sympathy for you as I would a company complaining that the government was no longer allowing them to dispose of toxic waste indiscriminately into the nearest river or into the air, and that they had every “right” to continue to pollute. > [@mckall](#): > > …It’s a cyclical argument and all non smokers continue to bleat about is their rights. There are alternative solutions to your ‘problem’ of my smoke in the great outdoors, you simply don’t want to use them. Right, and you could say the same thing about all the polluting companies who saw nothing wrong with polluting the great outdoors. After all, the Hooker Chemical Company had every right to use [Love Canal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal) however they wanted, right? And I’m sure that all of the neighbors had “alternative solutions” to avoid the pollution that was so dangerous to them, but they just didn’t want to use them. :rolleyes: > [@mckall](#): > > …Which, as I said above, I am under no obligation to give you. So I, and the 45 million other smokers, are not violating your rights since we don’t give them to you. If you are smoking in my vicinity as I walk down a public street, then the pollution you are creating is most certainly violating my rights. > [@mckall](#): > > …You have the right to clean air, certainly, and I could argue I have the right to pollute my lungs if I choose. Well, gee, thanks for finally admitting that I have the right to clean air uncontaminated by your smoke. > [@mckall](#): > > …The amount of smoke you breath in outside while walking down the sidewalk, has to be comparable or lower compared to break dust or exhaust. The latter you’ll breath regardless of smokers or non-smokers on the street. WRONG! This was debunked by me with a cite back in Post #184. I have referenced it since. So you’re either not keeping up with the thread, or you’re just ignoring it. > [@mckall](#): > > …I don’t know what city you live in, but I note that your from Connecticut. To give a comparison, I’m in Vegas with 2 million or so in metro area, and I find myself to usually be the odd man who’s smoking. So I can’t buy your statement that you have streets filled with smokers everywhere, it just doesn’t seem plausible. Maybe all of the smokers in Vegas are inside the casinos smoking. Isn’t that still allowed there? Here in Connecticut, all of the smokers are outside during the workday, apparently. > [@SteveG1](#): > > Proof??? You know–this isn’t all that hard to figure out. If I can smell smoke, and a cigarette smoker is nearby, I am being exposed to secondhand smoke, which has been conclusively shown in numerous studies to be harmful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-ilegal-to-smoke-on-the-street/566434.md?page=13)