I’m too lazy to use my Googlefoo to its fullest but check some of the CF Society stuff - chances are you can get a good cite from them. The people effected by outdoor smoking (especially around building entrances and bus stops) are people with legitimate respiratory disease rather than the usual suspects just playing control games. How great the numbers or damage? Hard to say. But they are out there.
(I know – one married me :smack: )
Do I get free smokes out of the deal?
Because we live in a society and we accept that sometimes others will do things that annoy us.
I cited before about 20% of Americans smoke. So, while not as many as drive cars it is not a small number.
Can I ban NASCAR because it is loud, obnoxious, polluting, dangerous to the health of the participants (and sometimes the onlookers) and has no redeeming qualities in my view? How about boat racing? Ban the Chicago Air & Water show and anything like them. No one “needs” to see jets fly around. We all know what they look like and it is needless pollution. Ban amusement parks. We do not need them and they consume a huge amount of power for their size.
If you must drive should I be allowed to demand that everyone drive the most minimally polluting vehicle that will meet their needs? No one “needs” a Buggatti Veyron or Lamborghini. Few who drive them “need” a Hummer. The number of sparkling, never seen a day of work in their life pickups in Chicago astounds me.
I say you all get SMART cars to minimize the pollution from your driving (I take mass transit, walk or bike nearly everywhere…last time I drove was on a business trip a year ago). If you need something bigger prove it or we can sin tax the hell out of anything bigger than a SMART car to the tune of more than doubling their cost.
You have failed to show that smoking outside is dangerous to the health of others. Yes, if you stand downwind, three feet from a smoker who smokes continuously for an hour and breathe in all of the smoke coming from that person then it probably is not good for you. Who does that? Meanwhile, at the same place you are sucking in secondhand cigarette smoke you are getting a serious does of car/truck exhaust from the nearby street. The reality is that is far more dangerous to your health than a smoker nearby while outside (unless you are somehow huffing all the secondhand smoke you possibly can which you certainly are not).
As far as smoking in front of buildings that is already against the law in Chicago (at least). If the rule is not enforced that is something else but the rule is there.
“it should be illegal to smoke on the street.”
Agreed. Like most people who responded. Disagreeing with it will only make you more disturbed about the new laws as they come on the books. It’s kinda like alcoholism. Nobody can help you until you admit you have a problem.
That or there won’t be new laws and you’ll just have to suffer and live knowing you will die young because of them.
Remember when, to paraphrase others, “EVERYONE” smoked? It wasn’t really everyone any more than its “everyone drives a car” but there were times when it sure seemed like that. I can remember sitting in the exam room while my doctor lit up. That 20% isn’t a constant - it took years and years to get it down to that. And that looks to be about as far down as its going to go.
Remember the “tobacco culture” and how economics relied - relied we were told - on a strong tobacco industry? Remember how we (or at least me and the other activists) went into the schools with facts that had about as much science behind them as - well, lets face it, about as much science as what we passed off as scientific fact across the board. We started with the kids (or even better “for the kids”) and circled out from there. And we reduced tobacco to its current levels.
In other words, don’t worry – I expect to have a heck of a collection of car keys before I die. Not all of them - some of those poor depraved addicts will never give up their habit no matter how many times we show them their stupidity. Denial can be a real block for some people to get over. I’m guessing it will be a little under 20% once the punitive taxes and educational programs really set in.
Odd how the universe works out like that. 
Yes, we could live in a society and accept that others may sometimes do things that annoy us. But given our general history, I’m not putting any money on it.
Why should I - because you exhort me to? Where does the premise of this debate rest on proving anything about smoking’s health detriments, inside, outside, upside down, one way or the other? It’s unhealthy even if only presumed by association in trace amounts in the open. Having sex with children has not been proven to be unhealthy for the participants of that activity either but it’s still illegal. Raise it to whatever level you like. Some find smoking particularly disgusting, oh well. :rolleyes:
It’s nasty, it stinks, makes your teeth yellow, we don’t like it and you had better keep it to yourself, lest you become legally required to do so.
What you have proven Mr. Whack off Mole, is what everyone knew at some level all along: Smokers will do anything to keep smoking and try to justify it in really irrational ways.
Thanks for that!
There cannot be a crime without an injured party. Taxes are illegal unless I consent to paying them and know exactly where they are going. I have the right to smoke, fart, do whatever I want on my property and on the public property that I pay for out of the tax dollars that are taken from me by force. Rules are deadweight. The world constantly changes, I constantly change, yet rules stay the same. The U.S now has more laws than any other country in the history of the world. Hitler and Stalin could only dream of such a ultra totalitarian state. But you would not realize this of course If you are still one of the fading middle class or privileged,
sheltered “intellectual”.
Ahhh… school vacation.
Save this stuff for the Pit. Insults don’t belong in this forum.
Snow day, too. But please hold off on any further personal comments.
If you want to pass laws prohibiting others from a thing then you need to show good reason for doing so beyond, “I don’t like it.” Clearly our prisons are not full enough. We need to put smokers in there too.
Err…yes it is unhealthy for the children. Ask any mental health professional. Do I really need to cite stories of people whose lives were screwed up because they were molested as a child? Talk about stupid analogies. :rolleyes:
Can an obese person justify having a Big mac?
So, we FINALLY come down to it. Smoking should be outlawed everywhere because YOU don’t like it. At last a bit of honesty for a change.
Maybe I should start on my own list of things I don’t like.
I will readily admit that there are tobacco addicts out there that fit your description. Quite a few, in fact. But that’s no reason to punish people like me who light up a pipe once a month or so.
We have a truly unfortunate mentality in this country that says, some people might abuse X, so let’s take X away from everybody; some people who do Y end up doing something illegal, so let’s not allow anybody to do Y. Deal with the problem (in this case the inconsiderate smokers) directly. Don’t attack and punish everyone.
Thank you, Whack-a-Mole. Perfect example. Still listening, kopek? Telling everyone they can’t smoke because some people smoke too much and make problems is like telling everyone they can’t eat Big Macs because some people eat too many and become obese.
There’s a big difference here that keeps getting overlooked.
The obese person scarfing down Big Macs doesn’t directly affect my health and well-being. They are only hurting themselves. On the other hand, a smoker’s secondhand smoke directly affects me and my health.
I’m not saying that smokers can’t smoke. I’m saying that I don’t want them to smoke around me. They can smoke to their heart’s content in their own home, their own car, and in designated smoking areas and establishments. However, since I can’t currently walk down a city street without being continually exposed to cigarette smoke, I do think that unrestricted outdoor smoking in public should be banned.
Oh christ. Didn’t we already go through this? Cite that outdoor second hand smoke, in a realistic situation, directly affects your health.
As you sow, so shall you reap.
I agree - it sucks that people cannot walk down the public street without being exposed to smoke. This is especially so when it comes to areas around bars, and doorways to office buildings (which is pretty much the only time I think it becomes noticeable). But that is a direct result of banning people from smoking on private property where the private property owner was willing to let them smoke. So the exposure has shifted from those in a place voluntarily to a lower level of exposure by those not there voluntarily. Doesn’t strike me as a good bargain all told, but YMMV.
Interesting how he puts words in the opponents mouth, lacking anything of substance in the way of support for his indefensible position. :rolleyes:
Even the disinterested observer would of course discern that “I” don’t like it. Way to go Capt obvious! Yes me and the rest of the 80% of the population who don’t like it. Duh.
Who said smoking should be outlawed “everywhere?” Again, an inane distraction of indignant zeal to deflect attention from the real issue. Quick reminder on the thread topic Stevie: "“It should be illegal to smoke on the street.” i.e. public places, if you can possibly grasp the distinction between public, shared spaces and “everywhere.”
We, meaning the vast majority and yes, including “I,” fully encourage you and your ilke to choke to death yourselves, family and friends sharing the same PRIVATE spaces. Get a whole group together and have a party - chain smoke, for cryin’ out loud. Every day. Go for it.
Just keep it to yourself, please.
The beat goes on.
Auto racing fans, take note - Richmond International Raceway has announced a ban on smoking in the grandstand (technically “outdoor” smoking, except that air circulation is poor in such settings and a ban seems eminently reasonable to me). Fans will still be able to light up in designated areas.
This is the kind of “outdoor smoking ban” we will undoubtedly see more of as times goes on. Smoking on the street will continue to be legal with rare exceptions.
Count me as unsympathetic to the argument that nonsmokers deserve to run gauntlets of smoke at entrances to buildings, since they’ve banished smokers outdoors and the poor dears are too delicate to disperse more than a few feet from entrances and risk exposure to the weather. Same goes for the line about how “you’re forcing us to pile up cigarette litter at entrances instead of spreading out our garbage so that you’d hardly notice it!”.
If these problems are too much for smokers to overcome voluntarily, ordinances can be enforced to help you out. 
As part of the effort to remove smokers from doorways (which I support, actually), places to put cigarette litter are also being removed. If I happen to be smoking while about to enter a building, I look for an ashtray first, and a trash can second. You’d be surprised how often neither are available.
How terribly inconvenient smoking can be for literally everyone involved. :rolleyes: