# It should be required of a SCOTUS judge to discern moral righteousness **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525 "2023-04-11T15:25:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/1 "2023-04-11T15:25:41Z")
To be a Supreme Court Justice, should one not be required to demonstrate the ability to **discern** the difference between what is legal, what is moral, and what is the right thing to do to avoid the appearance of bias? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/2 "2023-04-11T15:44:53Z")
Of course. And the way to enforce such a requirement is for the politicians nominating and confirming the justices to use it as one of their criteria for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/3 "2023-04-11T15:52:11Z")
It’s human nature to do whatever is not prohibited by law. True altruism is rare. There need to be laws that apply to ALL elected/appointed officials, including judges. Why they have gotten a pass all this time is beyond my comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/4 "2023-04-11T15:56:20Z")
It is very difficult for me comprehend how a sitting Supreme Court justice does not understand or see that receiving nearly half a million dollars in “hospitalities” from one individual who is not a family member may be legal but **not** right and clearly can be viewed as being “owned.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/5 "2023-04-11T16:24:38Z")
I think something @Dinsdale posted in the Clarence Thomas thread is worth quoting here: > [@Clarence Thomas secretly accepted luxury vacations from GOP donor without disclosing](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/116): > > Just to make clear for any non-lawyers, non-federal employees, non-judges. > > In law school, EVERY student has to take a course on ethics. > Every aspiring lawyer has to pass a test on ethics, and be cleared by some panel on things ethical. > Every lawyer has to pay annual dues to a a state organization enforcing professional responsibility, and present character references to be admitted to practice in front of certain courts. > Every federal employee receives annual training and reminds on ethics. > I’m not sure the training for Article 3 judges, but there are accepted codes of Judicial ethics. > This guy was an Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights, and headed the EEOC, two positions/entities that were somewhat concerned with impropriety AND the appearance of impropriety. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/6 "2023-04-11T18:29:51Z")
And sir, that is what I’m talking about. What is the point of taking those Ethics classes, passing the tests etc… but failing them in real life? Does it not have something to do with there not being any consequences for violating them? How is it that our legislative representatives mussed that one? Why isn’t there a stated law that says, if you do this, this will happen to you. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/7 "2023-04-11T18:34:24Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > What is the point of taking those Ethics classes, passing the tests etc… but failing them in real life? You don’t get paid to fail an ethics class, but in real life, failing ethics can be quite lucrative. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/8 "2023-04-11T19:13:10Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > Does it not have something to do with there not being any consequences for violating them? How is it that our legislative representatives mussed that one? Why isn’t there a stated law that says, if you do this, this will happen to you. He can be impeached for it. It has happened before and while Justice Chase was acquitted other Federal judges have been removed. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/9 "2023-04-11T19:24:48Z")
He knows there isn’t a chance on Earth or anywhere else that he’d get removed from office so long as Democrats have West Virginia’s Democrat and Arizona’s Democrat turned Independent. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/10 "2023-04-11T19:30:17Z")
Part of the issue too is that in contradiction to your thread title, he is not a judge; he is a Justice. I believe judges can lose their position by being disbarred (correct me if I’m wrong) however Justices can be anyone and don’t have to be a lawyer so even if he were disbarred for ethical violations then he would till keep his job as a SCOTUS Justice. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/11 "2023-04-12T02:40:13Z")
Thomas got through a brutal confirmation and since then has given a giant finger to the US. His wife is a lobbiest and sure looks knee deep in the January 6 insurrection. The above $500k was only _ONE_ single vacation out of a 20+ year record of freebies from a “friend.” Thomas has taken millions if not tens of millions from his billionaire “friend” and add-on his wife’s take. There is a concept of avoiding even the appearance of impropriety, which obviously didn’t take in Thomas’ case. There is no code of ethics in US corporate or government where this could be considered sane. A big corporation like Microsoft would fire your ass in a heartbeat for a fraction of this type of abuse. [Sarbanes-Oxley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes%E2%80%93Oxley_Act) would likely come into play. The Supremes should have term limits. Maybe 20 years? And terms should expire every 4 years in the middle of a presidential term so every President can run one or two through the confirmation process. No wonder people are losing faith in the Supreme Court. For me it started when the Supremes selected George Bush. Follow by campaign finance laws and other egregious legislation from the bench to overturned settled case law of Row v Wade. And Thomas blatantly has his hand out to the highest bidder. And he is a cheap ass bargain thinking a private plane ride is worth selling his sole. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2023, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/12 "2023-04-12T02:53:46Z")
Impeachment required two-thirds of the Senators present. A majority will not suffice. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/13 "2023-04-13T14:12:59Z")
He could still be disbarred, but as I understand it, that would just be unusual and awkward, not necessarily a statutory block for him to work as a Justice. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/14 "2023-04-13T15:14:14Z")
So pretty much what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/15 "2023-04-13T15:25:21Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > There is no code of ethics in US corporate or government where this could be considered sane. A big corporation like Microsoft would fire your ass in a heartbeat for a fraction of this type of abuse. [Sarbanes-Oxley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes%E2%80%93Oxley_Act) would likely come into play. Could you explain what you mean by this? An executive from Microsoft would be fired for taking a trip paid for by a rich person? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/16 "2023-04-13T15:42:42Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I think something @Dinsdale posted in the Clarence Thomas thread is worth quoting here: > > > [@](#): > > > > In law school, EVERY student has to take a course on ethics. > > Every aspiring lawyer has to pass a test on ethics, and be cleared by some panel on things ethical. Just a quick observation that “moral righteousness” and “legal ethics” are two different things, and sometimes diametrically opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/17 "2023-04-13T15:52:32Z")
Actually, there are few ethical requirements of attorneys that could reasonably be said to be even amoral, much less immoral. Following legal ethics won’t make you a bad person; it’s just that that leaves room for attorneys to be very immoral without egregiously violating the ethics rules. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/18 "2023-04-13T15:54:25Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Thomas has taken millions if not tens of millions from his billionaire “friend” and add-on his wife’s take. And how many of these “friends” does he have? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/19 "2023-04-13T16:56:11Z")
> [@](#): > > In law school, EVERY student has to take a course on ethics. > Every aspiring lawyer has to pass a test on ethics, and be cleared by some panel on things ethical. This speaks to the general lack of utility of ethics courses. And it’s not just lawyers - it’s [questionable](https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/06/13/ethics-education-in-u-s-medical-schools-curricula/) whether medical school courses in ethics do much good. I’ve noticed that often, when state medical boards discipline physicians for clearly illegal or immoral behavior like running opioid pill mills or taking sexual advantage of patients, penalties often include such things as taking ethics and medical jurisprudence courses. Somehow I get the feeling that won’t do a hell of a lot of good. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525/20 "2023-04-13T18:26:51Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > To be a Supreme Court Justice, should one not be required to demonstrate the ability to **discern** the difference between what is legal, what is moral, and what is the right thing to do to avoid the appearance of bias? In my opinion, the job itself only requires the ability to discern the law. Supreme Court Justices are not bound by any external code of ethics, and I would argue the Constitution prohibits the imposition of any such code, except that they may be impeached for “high crimes and misdemeanors” as interpreted by Congress. ~Max [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-should-be-required-of-a-scotus-judge-to-discern-moral-righteousness/982525.md?page=2)