# It takes 67 senate votes to impeach. Please don't waste our time. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 23, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298 "2018-01-23T15:24:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/61 "2018-01-23T23:47:33Z")
The best data supporting a Democratic take-over of the House is the enthusiasm gap between Republican and Democratic voters. The polls are a bit unclear, showing the gap to be anywhere from ~7% to ~15%, in favor of D. If the truth ends up being closer to the lower number, then the House might not switch. If it it’s close to the higher number, it almost certainly will. If Mueller comes up with impeachable stuff about Trump, I’m perfectly fine with impeachment happening in the House even if prospects for removal are slim to none in the Senate. The American people will be the ultimate deciders in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/62 "2018-01-23T23:53:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The best data supporting a Democratic take-over of the House is the enthusiasm gap between Republican and Democratic voters. The polls are a bit unclear, showing the gap to be anywhere from ~7% to ~15%, in favor of D. If the truth ends up being closer to the lower number, then the House might not switch. If it it’s close to the higher number, it almost certainly will. > > If Mueller comes up with impeachable stuff about Trump, I’m perfectly fine with impeachment happening in the House even if prospects for removal are slim to none in the Senate. The American people will be the ultimate deciders in 2020. I’m not sure if we’re looking at the same thing and calling it something different, but the [RCP generic Congressional ballot polling average](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2018_generic_congressional_vote-6185.html) hit a high of D +13 in late December and has since fallen to D +7-8. [538](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-generic-ballot-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo) has it at pretty similar. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/63 "2018-01-23T23:59:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not sure if we’re looking at the same thing and calling it something different, but the [RCP generic Congressional ballot polling average](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2018_generic_congressional_vote-6185.html) hit a high of D +13 in late December and has since fallen to D +7-8. [538](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-generic-ballot-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo) has it at pretty similar. No, the generic politician poll is different from voter enthusiasm. Here is [a link to CNN on both:](http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/21/politics/cnn-poll-midterm-elections-generic-congressional/index.html) > [@](#): > > As the midterm election year begins, a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS finds the Democratic advantage on a generic congressional ballot has tightened to a narrow 5 points among registered voters… > > \ > > Enthusiasm about voting in this year’s contests has grown as the calendar page has turned, with a spike among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents from 32% feeling extremely or very enthusiastic about casting a ballot in December to 43% saying the same now. Democrats still hold an advantage in enthusiasm, however, with 51% saying they are that enthusiastic about voting in this year’s midterm elections. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/64 "2018-01-24T00:37:57Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > I agree that if the Dems reclaim the HoR in January it’s likely that Pelosi will be elected Speaker. But I think it’s important to remember that it’s not a guarantee. If the Speaker role goes to someone more palatable to the Pubs than Pelosi, that changes the dynamics quite a lot. Sounds good but _any_ Democrat who rises to the speakership will, in short, order, attract the same kind of vitriol that Pelosi currently does. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/65 "2018-01-24T01:37:16Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > Pence would likely do as much or more harm that Trump is doing, albeit he may be less likely to bumble his way into setting off a nuclear war… As much as I hate Mike Pence and what he stands for he is a lesser evil than Trump. He’s not going to be able to do as much harm as Trump; especially with one or more houses of Congress in the opposition’s hands (which is the only his presidency is plausible without Trump dying). If Trump is removed from office following impeachment it’ll be because the Democrats decided they can live with Pence serving out the rest of Trump’s term and so assured the Republicans behind closed doors. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/66 "2018-01-24T03:27:55Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The notion of the GOP giving into an impeachment process that ends with Pelosi (or some other Democrat; Pelosi is the likely favorate for a Democratic House Speaker but not a certain lock) in the White House is about as fanciful as white rabbits in waistcoats worrying about the time. > > Stranger Just what are you implying? \ No, I actually think you’re right on that. Public sentiment would have to reach a fever pitch for it to happen, and even then, I think Republicans would hold fast as barnacles to their slimy rocks if at all possible. The Supreme Court is never far from their minds. If there exists even a remote possibility that they can load another Justice or two in their favor, they’ll keep the most gross Republican president in place to do it. As they have already proved. I hope RBG and Kennedy have food tasters. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/67 "2018-01-24T03:41:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It depends. > > If the Democrats gain either part of Congress in 2018, then they’ll be able to dig deep with a real investigation into Trump’s various potential wrongdoings. If these investigations (along with Mueller’s investigation) comes up with very strong and very clear evidence of major criminal wrongdoing, then I think impeachment would be a very good idea, both morally and politically. It would do the following: > > Publicly and formally air such clear and strong evidence of wrongdoing; > > Force all Republicans in Congress to take a public position on this clear and strong evidence of wrongdoing. > > Even if the impeachment vote ultimately failed, those would be very valuable things for the Democrats, politically speaking. And what if its a big old nothing burger? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/68 "2018-01-24T04:03:39Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Look how badly it went last time we had one. It’ll be perceived as wasting time in partisan frippery. Far better to be seen trying to benefit people and being block so we can move forward into 2020. We’re going to be hyper-partisan for the foreseeable future. There’s no going back to pre-2016. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/69 "2018-01-24T13:27:12Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > We’re going to be hyper-partisan for the foreseeable future. There’s no going back to pre-2016. That doesn’t mean expensive, drawn out public displays of partisan frippery that will end in failure are a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/70 "2018-01-24T14:08:20Z")
Let’s admit to the reality; an impeachment without 67 votes would be a showcase. But that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have real world effects. Showcases exist for a reason. Trump’s not an intelligent man. He surrounds himself with yes-men for a reason. He needs careful handling to maintain the illusion of competency. Put him in a situation where he can’t control the questioning and he’s going to end up looking like the incompetent fool that he is. And there’s fallout for the Republicans. If the Democrats can put forward clear evidence against Trump and the Republicans choose to ignore that evidence and defend Trump anyway, the public will be watching. Sure, the true believers will think it’s great. But the Republicans will lose a lot of swing voters that they desperately need. The Democrats will win this if they can expose Trump in a public forum and tie the Republican Party in with Trump. The question is whether they can pull it off. The Republicans are a lot better at this kind of thing than the Democrats are and they couldn’t pull it off with Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/71 "2018-01-24T14:09:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Anny Middon** : > > I agree that if the Dems reclaim the HoR in January it’s likely that Pelosi will be elected Speaker. But I think it’s important to remember that it’s not a guarantee. If the Speaker role goes to someone more palatable to the Pubs than Pelosi, that changes the dynamics quite a lot. Eh, most of the Republicans who hate so vehemently on Pelosi couldn’t actually tell you a single thing about her, beyond that she’s the Great Satan. The vitriol is entirely because she’s the leader of the Democrats in the House. If some other Democrat became Speaker, the reaction would be the same. Compare, for instance, to how Kerry, Clinton, and Obama were _all_ “the most liberal Democrat in the Senate” as soon as they ran for the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/72 "2018-01-24T14:09:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > It depends. > > > > If the Democrats gain either part of Congress in 2018, then they’ll be able to dig deep with a real investigation into Trump’s various potential wrongdoings. If these investigations (along with Mueller’s investigation) comes up with very strong and very clear evidence of major criminal wrongdoing, then I think impeachment would be a very good idea, both morally and politically. It would do the following: > > > > Publicly and formally air such clear and strong evidence of wrongdoing; > > > > Force all Republicans in Congress to take a public position on this clear and strong evidence of wrongdoing. > > > > Even if the impeachment vote ultimately failed, those would be very valuable things for the Democrats, politically speaking. > > And what if its a big old nothing burger? Same thing, just louder. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/73 "2018-01-24T17:00:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Eh, most of the Republicans who hate so vehemently on Pelosi couldn’t actually tell you a single thing about her, beyond that she’s the Great Satan. The vitriol is entirely because she’s the leader of the Democrats in the House. If some other Democrat became Speaker, the reaction would be the same. Compare, for instance, to how Kerry, Clinton, and Obama were _all_ “the most liberal Democrat in the Senate” as soon as they ran for the Presidency. Yabbut that’s just words. I remember how my wife’s grandmother reacted to Hillary v. how she reacted to the others. Not during Hillary’s last run for President - she was already too far into dementia then to know that Hillary was running. But just at any random point over the time Hillary was in the Senate or was Sec of State. Even when they were running (or President, in Obama’s case), neither Kerry nor Gore nor Obama elicited nearly that sort of reaction from her, where the very name became a hiss. If Steny Hoyer became the House Minority Leader tomorrow, they’d say stuff about him, but the visceral reaction that Pelosi seems to arouse would be largely missing. And yeah, I think it’s all about the misogyny. There’s a deep strain in the more conservative parts of America of not liking women bossing men around. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/74 "2018-01-24T17:08:33Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That doesn’t mean expensive, drawn out public displays of partisan frippery that will end in failure are a good idea. I don’t think impeachment is necessarily a good idea; it isn’t necessarily a bad idea either. Either way, it doesn’t really matter at this point. Even if Democrats show restraint in not impeaching the president, we will still be suffering from social and political sepsis. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/75 "2018-01-24T17:25:34Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And yeah, I think it’s all about the misogyny. There’s a deep strain in the more conservative parts of America of not liking women bossing men around. That includes women, for reasons I don’t pretend to understand. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/76 "2018-01-24T17:36:37Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t think impeachment is necessarily a good idea; it isn’t necessarily a bad idea either. Either way, it doesn’t really matter at this point. Even if Democrats show restraint in not impeaching the president, we will still be suffering from social and political sepsis. But this thread is specifically about whether it’s a good idea or bad, not whether impeachment will cure political sepsis. Unless Mueller comes up with something pretty juicy, I don’t think a cannonball into the sepsis is going to help Democrats with the independent voters. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/77 "2018-01-24T18:01:24Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But this thread is specifically about whether it’s a good idea or bad, not whether impeachment will cure political sepsis. Unless Mueller comes up with something pretty juicy, I don’t think a cannonball into the sepsis is going to help Democrats with the independent voters. Well…you’re probably correct. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/78 "2018-01-24T18:33:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Let’s admit to the reality; an impeachment without 67 votes would be a showcase. But that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have real world effects. Showcases exist for a reason. > > Trump’s not an intelligent man. He surrounds himself with yes-men for a reason. He needs careful handling to maintain the illusion of competency. Put him in a situation where he can’t control the questioning and he’s going to end up looking like the incompetent fool that he is. It is hard to imagine Trump looking more incompentent than he already does on a daily basis. The people who accept that reality are aleady in opposition to Trump; those who are die-hard supporters will dismiss it. The rest of the “undecided” public already doesn’t care enough to have a strong opinion and it is doubtful that anything short of pictures of Trump literally performing fellatio on Vladimir Putin are unlikely to result in enough of a public outcry to cause Republican senators to vote for conviction even if the House has a successful vote for impeachment. However, a more ambiguous result can give fodder for the GOP and the Trump clamp to complain about a “witch hunt” and blowback on vocal Democrats up for election. The singular potentially positive aspect of impeachment proceedings would be to derail any legislative agenda by the GOP for the duration, but that too could result in unintended consequences with Republicans claiming that the reason they can’t accomplish anything was because of Democratic obstructionism rather than their own infighting. So, impeachment is really a circus sideshow with no practical upsides and potential blowback. Better to let the GOP and Trump fumble and fluster with one another. If it were plausible to get enough Republican senators to vote for impeachment, which, if there is a very strong showing of Democrats in the 2018 elections combined with some solid revelations of complicity and coverup by Trump from the Mueller investigations might just be possible, but I think that is unlikely based upon current trends. In any case, the GOP-dominated Senate is not going to vote for any scenario which ends up with a hypothetical Democratic speaker taking the presidency regardless of any facts. The notion of impeaching both Trump and Pence is a non-starter. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/79 "2018-01-24T19:01:49Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The singular potentially positive aspect of impeachment proceedings would be to derail any legislative agenda by the GOP for the duration, but that too could result in unintended consequences with Republicans claiming that the reason they can’t accomplish anything was because of Democratic obstructionism rather than their own infighting. Would it not also prevent Democrats from achieving anything as well? I see no indication that the Dems are better at multi-tasking during impeachment hearings than any other party. Unless you can point to significant Democrat-sponsored legislation that was moved forward during the Clinton impeachment process. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298/80 "2018-01-24T19:10:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Same thing, just louder. > > Regards, > Shodan I hope they know what they are doing. I think we should try to keep racists out of office. Its the primary reason Asians vote Democrat despite being pretty Republican in almost every other respect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-takes-67-senate-votes-to-impeach-please-dont-waste-our-time/807298.md?page=5)