# It Was A Dark And Stormy Night **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 1, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174 "2007-07-01T23:49:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/1 "2007-07-01T23:49:01Z")
I understand that this sentence has become a cliche and is always being held up as an example of horrid writing. There is even an annual award given in its name for recent examples of terrible opening lines to a novel. But I’ve never understood what is wrong with it. Anyone who used it today to begin a book would be laughed out of his agent’s office, but when readers of 150 years ago came across it, I am sure they didn’t say “Yuck, what a terrible way to begin a book.” On the contrary, I suspect it pulled them into the story because it is very dramatic. Can someone explain to me why, of all the opening sentences of all the books in the world, this one has had such ridicule heaped upon it? ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/2 "2007-07-02T00:02:53Z")
I think it was as much the terrible follow-on sentences. I can’t remember exactly, but I think he continues “… in England (for that is where our story is set).” I imagine it goes to the core of the “rule” “show, don’t tell.” A good writer would have showed us how the storms looked, how they fell, how they affected the protagonist, etc. Just my guess. Search–I know this topic has come up in threads before. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/3 "2007-07-02T00:07:59Z")
[QUOTE=Sir Rhosis] I think it was as much the terrible follow-on sentences. I can’t remember exactly, but I think he continues “… in England (for that is where our story is set).” [/QUOTE] The [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_was_a_dark_and_stormy_night) contains the complete sentence: [QUOTE=Edward Bulwer-Lytton] It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents, except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/4 "2007-07-02T00:10:08Z")
I looked it up after I posted. Seems he did show, he just did so in a manner (lots of dependent clauses) that is “purple” by today’s standards. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/5 "2007-07-02T00:49:08Z")
It is mentioned in the article I linked to, but it deserves to be explicitly pointed out: Snoopy deserves a lot of the credit for turning the opening “It was a dark and stormy night” into a joke/cliche. ---
**Author:** ![Ms.Pumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@Ms.Pumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms.Pumpkin)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/6 "2007-07-02T01:16:55Z")
Whenever I see that line, I’m reminded of a horrible “joke” from childhood: “It was a dark and stormy night, and the captain said to his wife, ‘tell me a story’. And this is what she said: It was a dark and stormy night, and the captain said to his wife, ‘tell me a story’. And this is what she said. It was a dark and stormy night…” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/7 "2007-07-02T01:21:21Z")
Snoopy deserves some credit, but I’ll bet Schulz’s inspriation was not directly from Bulwer-Lytton but from a intermediary source. The Canadian humorist Stpehen Leacock was once the most famous humorist in the world, and would certainly have been someone familiar to a young cartoonist-in-training. One of his [Nonsense Novels](http://www.fullbooks.com/Nonsense-Novels1.html) from 1911, was Gertrude the Governess. It starts: > [@](#): > > _Synopsis of Previous Chapters:_ > _There are no Previous Chapters._ > > IT was a wild and stormy night on the West Coast of > Scotland. This, however, is immaterial to the present > story, as the scene is not laid in the West of Scotland. > For the matter of that the weather was just as bad on the > East Coast of Ireland. > > But the scene of this narrative is laid in the South of > England and takes place in and around Knotacentinum Towers > (pronounced as if written Nosham Taws), the seat of Lord > Knotacent (pronounced as if written Nosh). This is one of the most famous parodies in literature. (Some of the other most famous parodies are other chapters in the book.) I’d give Leacock a lot of credit for Snoopy’s writing. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/8 "2007-07-02T01:40:04Z")
I hate when I see that phrase, because it reminds me I once, among other volumes, had a signed copy of the “Peanuts” book by the same name, which was destroyed in a flood. I’ve no idea if Charles Schulz autographs are valuable or not, but it still bothers me. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/9 "2007-07-02T03:11:25Z")
You may now want to do damage to yourself. > [@](#): > > Alibris > [United States] New York, NY Holt, Rinehart and Winston 1971 First Edition Hardcover Very good condition. Very good condition (DJ) Octavo (8vo). Signed Pictorial laminate hardcover cloth binding, with “SNOOPY” in the title erased neatly to a creme color (instead of black like the rest of the title); otherwise minimal shelfwear. Dustjacket title is similarly altered, with “SNOOPY” erased and then browned in to a darker brown than the dustjacket. Snoopy’s ear is also colored in. Spine is slightly sunned, and … > $303.99 Of course yours may not have been a hardcover with dust jacket, which increases the price tremendously. Still… ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/10 "2007-07-02T03:54:23Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno MapcaseOne of his [Nonsense Novels] ([Nonsense Novels by Stephen Leacock - Full Text Free Book (Part 1/3)](http://www.fullbooks.com/Nonsense-Novels1.html)) from 1911, was Gertrude the Governess. It starts: [/QUOTE] Gawd, that’s funny! Odd when something that old kicks my funnybone in a “funny” rather than a patronising “given the times it was funny” manner, but it still must have something to do with my being stuck in the late 19th century. Married an older woman, dontchaknow. She’s stuck in the MID 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/11 "2007-07-02T09:34:59Z")
[QUOTE=Ms. Pumpkin] Whenever I see that line, I’m reminded of a horrible “joke” from childhood: “It was a dark and stormy night, and the captain said to his wife, ‘tell me a story’. And this is what she said: It was a dark and stormy night, and the captain said to his wife, ‘tell me a story’. And this is what she said. It was a dark and stormy night…” [/QUOTE] There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say "There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say "There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say … ---
**Author:** ![Ms.Pumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@Ms.Pumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms.Pumpkin)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/12 "2007-07-02T11:59:08Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say "There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say "There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say … [/QUOTE] Make it stop!! _sob_ ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/13 "2007-07-02T12:32:57Z")
All those are topped by John Barth’s “Frame Tale,” which cannot be recounted properly in two dimensions: It consists of the words “Once upon a time there was a story that began” pasted on a Moebius strip. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/14 "2007-07-02T12:40:42Z")
Don’t forget, of course, Madeleine l’Engle’s **A Wrinkle in Time** , which starts out that way (in all seriousness) and continues without purple prose, and which predates Snoopy’s literary efforts. Snoopy’s book, by the way, was very briefly in print itself, as a book with the title “It was a Dark and Stormy Night”. It featured the Peanuts strips mentioning the book, and it had a reproduction of the cover as described by Snoopy (and as drawn by, IIRC, Linus). ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/15 "2007-07-02T12:44:24Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say "There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say "There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say … [/QUOTE] There are two kinds of people: those who say there are two kinds of people and those who don’t. 🙂 There are two kinds of people: those who say there are two kinds of people and those who like to take the opposite view. :smack: There are two kinds of people: those who say there are two kinds of people and those who are getting on a bit and can’t remember how their sentences are meant to finish… 😕 ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/16 "2007-07-02T12:46:30Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say "There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say "There are two kinds of people: those who say there is no such thing as infinite recursion, and those who say … [/QUOTE] I am stealing this for my random sig tag collection! ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/17 "2007-07-02T13:08:07Z")
Having read all the replies to this thread, I still don’t get why people hold it up as an example of “Bad writing”. _It was a dark and stormy night_ immediately puts me in mind of a moonless, coal-black night, lashed by a storm, and the rest of the opening sentence further serves to set the scene in rain-swept London. Seems perfectly functional to me; I’d certainly read on to find out more. Then again, I liked _Bulletproof Monk_ and _Kung Pow: Enter The Fist_, so I’m probably not the best person to be offering opinions on this sort of thing anyway… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/18 "2007-07-02T13:14:32Z")
It might be a little too comma-y, but I don’t get the hate, either. There are far shittier lines out there. I thought it painted an interesting picture, myself. I wish someone would explain who said it was soooo horrible and why. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/19 "2007-07-02T13:28:59Z")
My creative writing instructor held gave it as an example of redundancy. Of course it was dark–it was night (and stormy, so it’s not like you’re going to have full moonlight). You don’t have to tell me twice in the same sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2007, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174/20 "2007-07-02T15:05:09Z")
[QUOTE=Renee] My creative writing instructor held gave it as an example of redundancy. Of course it was dark–it was night (and stormy, so it’s not like you’re going to have full moonlight). You don’t have to tell me twice in the same sentence. [/QUOTE] But this is the thing- it’s entirely possible to have a bright, moonlight night which isn’t actually all that dark, and “stormy” suggests that it’s not only raining, there’s a gale blowing and being outside would be somewhat unpleasant at that time… like **Kalhoun** , I just don’t understand why people think it’s such a terrible line, or rank it in any kind of “Worst Ever” lists. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-a-dark-and-stormy-night/410174.md?page=2)