# It was not a 'dungeon' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 4, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040 "2008-05-04T20:16:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/41 "2008-05-05T19:10:16Z")
[QUOTE=Absolute] True, but if he went through the trouble of putting in a bathroom mirror, a tile floor, some kind of flower decoration, and all that stuff, I would think he also scrounged up adequate lighting. [/QUOTE] Maybe it was just a really tasteful dungeon. Martha Stewart Dungeonnaire from K-Mart. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/42 "2008-05-05T19:13:41Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Not talking specifically about this case but-- mentally ill does not mean stupid by a long shot. [/QUOTE] Yeah, Jeffrey Dahmer had the brains to convince cops to return to him a guy who escaped, and I don’t think anyone would argue a guy who has sex with severed heads isn’t mentally ill. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/43 "2008-05-05T21:47:29Z")
Eh, wait a few. Someone’ll be along. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/44 "2008-05-05T21:57:33Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] …and I don’t think anyone would argue a guy who has sex with severed heads isn’t mentally ill. [/QUOTE] Oh, like you haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/45 "2008-05-05T22:41:05Z")
In one of the articles, it said that the guy wrote a letter to the imprisoned daughter’s parents telling them to stop looking for her…but I thought he WAS her father? Or did she have other parents (i.e., her biological mother and her husband)? It reminds me a bit of “The Collector” by John Fowles. Except that story didn’t have incest or rape of any kind–but the main character imprisons a girl in his basement, giving her all kinds of amenities, records, clothing, nice food–and is then utterly puzzled when she still spends every ounce of her being trying to be free. It’s quite horrifying, really. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/46 "2008-05-05T22:53:26Z")
From what I recall, Fritzi had his daughter write the impassioned letter to stop looking for her. The implied audience for that letter was Fritzi’s wife, and the authorities, I believe. A red herring, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/47 "2008-05-05T23:02:40Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] In one of the articles, it said that the guy wrote a letter to the imprisoned daughter’s parents telling them to stop looking for her…but I thought he WAS her father? Or did she have other parents (i.e., her biological mother and her husband)? It reminds me a bit of “The Collector” by John Fowles. Except that story didn’t have incest or rape of any kind–but the main character imprisons a girl in his basement, giving her all kinds of amenities, records, clothing, nice food–and is then utterly puzzled when she still spends every ounce of her being trying to be free. It’s quite horrifying, really. [/QUOTE] His story was that she ran away from home, so he made her write a letter to “her parents” (really just her mom) to tell them to stop looking for her, in order to back up his story. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/48 "2008-05-05T23:21:05Z")
Now there are articles saying that he began plans for the ‘dungeon’ six years before he imprisoned her. Shudder. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/49 "2008-05-06T00:40:36Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] [His attorney is planning to argue he’s insane.](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354182,00.html) Now, I’m not a psychiatrist, but the level of detail he put into this “dungeon” and the fact he was able to keep it secret for 24 years should argue against him being mentally ill, no? [/QUOTE] Why isn’t there a verdict that says, “Insane, but still guilty?” ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/50 "2008-05-06T00:41:02Z")
That dude is old. I wonder what would have happened to them if he would have fucking died? Did he leave any sort of note or anything for someone to get them out or would they have starved to death and rotted down there. That fucker needs to be executed. Holy shit. I won’t be suprised when it comes out that he was raping the children he fathered with his daughter, creating his own sex slaves basically. I realize that the newsreports and the police and Elisabeth are saying that her mother never knew about hte dungeon and I guess I believe them but it its hard. I mean, what the fuck did she think he was doing down there ALL the time for 24 years? You’re telling me she never got curious and went downstairs when he wasn’t home to look around? Oh, also, It’s not totally clear and I’ve gotten different vibes from the different articales but is Elisabeth his wifes blood daughter? I mean did he take there daughter and stick her down there? Or is this his second wife? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/51 "2008-05-06T00:44:01Z")
Eurpoe is a fucked up place. [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353423,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353423,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/52 "2008-05-06T00:49:04Z")
[QUOTE=Cubsfan] Oh, also, It’s not totally clear and I’ve gotten different vibes from the different articales but is Elisabeth his wifes blood daughter? I mean did he take there daughter and stick her down there? Or is this his second wife? [/QUOTE] Their own daughter, yes. And I don’t know how the wife could have done something even if she was curious… the place was soundproofed and had a security lock that only the husband knew how to open. I’m not sure what would be appropiate punishment for this guy… death is too easy… ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/53 "2008-05-06T02:40:13Z")
it’s a Fritzl Chamber. If anyone were to use that term in the future, we would all know exactly what they meant. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/54 "2008-05-06T04:29:39Z")
[QUOTE=KarlGrenze] Their own daughter, yes. And I don’t know how the wife could have done something even if she was curious… the place was soundproofed and had a security lock that only the husband knew how to open. [/QUOTE] [According to this story](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7384112.stm), there were three doors with electronic locks, plus another five. [This story](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3876396.ece) says that there was a second access point > [@](#): > > so well concealed and difficult to open that police had to use heavy machinery borrowed from the local fire brigade. It’s amazing the depths some people can sink to. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/55 "2008-05-06T04:59:57Z")
I still don’t get how he built that up and put all the stuff down there without anyone finding out. If I were king I’d arrest the wife for being so oblivious. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/56 "2008-05-06T06:00:23Z")
[QUOTE=RandMcnally] I still don’t get how he built that up and put all the stuff down there without anyone finding out. If I were king I’d arrest the wife for being so oblivious. [/QUOTE] I have no cites but I’ve read over the last few days: He build the underground chamber(s) on the premise that they would be a bomb shelter. He even applied to the city for this and was approved. He is a domineering control freak and was not to be disturbed, _ever_, when he was in the basement working on “technical diagrams”(He’s an electrical technician-type). So, mom was not inclined to bring him a cup of coffee, it would seem. Hell, perhaps she welcomed his disappearances into the basement. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/57 "2008-05-06T06:08:04Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] [http://www.answers.com/dungeon&r=67](http://www.answers.com/dungeon&r=67) dun·geon (dŭn’jən) pronunciation n. 1. A dark, often underground chamber or cell used to confine prisoners. 2. A donjon. [/QUOTE] Definition number two is certainly helpful. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/58 "2008-05-06T17:26:44Z")
☹ [link](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/04/austria.internationalcrime1?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront) > [@guardian.co.uk](#): > > … Police photographs of the labyrinth of cellar rooms show narrow, stone-lined passageways, uneven floors and ceilings no higher than 5ft 6in. There was an ancient cooker, washing machine, freezer, as well as a television, video and radio. A small area housed a lavatory, sink and tiny shower. All the rooms were lit by harsh strip-lighting. > > Poignantly, the pictures show how Elisabeth desperately tried to decorate the drab rooms for the sake of her children. On the grimy white bathroom tiles are a painted yellow snail with green shell, a purple octopus, a child’s drawing of a flower and a fish, and stickers of stars and the sun - all of them things her ‘cellar children’ had never seen, except on the television, which was … > > … There are signs that Fritzl was planning to release them. He had made Elisabeth write a letter in which she said she wanted to come back, ‘but it’s not possible yet’. > > ‘Perhaps he was aware that he couldn’t keep the thing going forever,’ said … a well-lit dungeon is still a dungeon. what else do we call modern dungeons that are well-lit? [QUOTE=Wee Bairn] The really creepy part is that the area was so small, the kids would witness when he was doing their sister. I mean mother. [/QUOTE] he also had a separate room away from the others for that. apparently he’s shy. [QUOTE=Cubsfan] … That dude is old. I wonder what would have happened to them if he would have fucking died? … [/QUOTE] WAG: i think he’s aware of his own mortality. which is why he had allowed the visit to the hospital, instead of trying to cover it up like he did everything else. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/59 "2008-05-06T17:29:53Z")
It sounds hellish–5 feet, six inches? I don’t know how she didn’t go mad…that woman has true strength of character. Dungeon doesn’t sound all that hyperbolic to me. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040/60 "2008-05-06T19:50:44Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Why isn’t there a verdict that says, “Insane, but still guilty?” [/QUOTE] Under Spanish law there is, dunnow about Austrian. Under current Spanish laws it’s the only case someone can be put in a psychiatric hospital against their will. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/it-was-not-a-dungeon/448040.md?page=4)